Carla Miller 00:00
Welcome to the influence and impact podcast for female leaders.

My name is Carla Miller, and I'm a leadership coach who helps female leaders to tackle self doubt, become brilliant at influencing and make more impact at work. I've created this podcast to help you to become a more inspiring and impactful leader. We'll be talking about all the different topics that affect you as a woman leading today. Think of it as personal development meets professional development, and I want to become the leadership BFF you didn't know you were missing until now.

Hi, in this episode of influence and impact, I'm talking to guest expert Felicity Dwyer about communication and connection. Felicity as an independent facilitator, trainer, coach and speaker, specialising in communication and leadership skills, she helps individuals and teams to connect and communicate so that people feel heard and understood. Her clients include charities, small businesses, membership bodies, and public sector health and heritage organisations.

Now, Felicity is the author of Crafting Connection: Transform how you communicate with yourself and others.

The book introduces Felicity connecting in 3D model, and we're going to talk about that on the episode and it's packed with practical ideas to help you connect with yourself and build better relationships with other people. And the book is out on Kindle on the 17th of October, and the paperback is out on the 18th of October. So this episode is a bit of a sneak preview for you, and I hope will inspire you to go and read the book. Now we talk about this 3d model, which is a really interesting way of thinking through and approaching communication.

Felicity shares how she stays calm and connected in difficult conversations, how you can do the same. She also talks about how we can truly listen to another person and the different levels of listening. We talk about the body and the role of the body in listening and communication, and about how all of this applies to leadership. So really interesting discussion, I think you're going to come away with some really practical tools and tips that you can use.

Now, before we roll that episode, I wanted to give you an update on the book. So last time I spoke to you, we were launching the Kindle version that day. And I'm delighted to say that we did go straight to number one on the bestseller list for management and leadership in Kindle books that day, which was amazing means I can officially call it a best seller. The other super exciting thing that happened that day is that management today ran an article on the six books every leader should read this year. And my book was one of them the only book by a woman and alongside some really big names. So that was exciting. And a bit of validation for the book. What has been even more exciting is hearing from people that are already reading it seeing people share pictures of it arriving and then reading it hearing the impact that it's having on them. And there is so much in the book, it might take you a while to read it where you can just use the index and go straight for the things that you are really looking for. But obviously, what I wanted to say was a massive, massive, massive thank you for everyone who supported that in any way whatsoever.

Anyone who has bought the book told other people about it, borrowed it from your library, and the thing you have done to spread the word. I really, really appreciate that. And I'm hoping that the book is out there, doing a lot of good in the world at the moment. So that's it from me and my world. Let's roll the episode and interview with Felicity.

I'm delighted to welcome Felicity to the show. How you doing Felicity?

Felicity Dwyer 04:21
I'm really good. Carla, thank you so much for inviting me to be on your podcast.

Carla Miller 04:28
Well, it’s great to get to chat to you before your book comes out. Very excited about the impact that's going to have tell us a little bit about you and your background and how you came to be focusing on this area of connection and communication.

Felicity Dwyer 04:46
Well, I say in the book, to be honest that I was that child on the netball court who was in another world and not remotely connected to the world around me. And yet over the years I have learned lots of different techniques and approaches that have helped me to become, I believe, a good connector and good communicator. And that's what I put in the book. And something I'm really passionate about is these skills are learnable. They're not learnable overnight, but with practice and dedication and repetition, you can just become better and better. And it's a lifelong journey, really, you are never, in my view, the perfect communicator, you are always, you know, in the process of becoming. And that's something I feel is quite exciting about this, this area of work, because there's always things that people already do well, and there's things that, you know, most of us could still be doing better and better. And I absolutely include myself in that.

Carla Miller 05:46
Fantastic, I feel the same about leadership like and management, like very few of us are natural managers, or leaders, but you can learn and actually that approach to learning and continuous learning is what makes you a great leader. And I imagine a great communicator as well.

Felicity Dwyer 06:05
Absolutely, absolutely. And as soon as you think you've got it, and you close off from learning, you almost start to go inwards. You know, it's always having that, that, yeah, that openness, really, so this is a new idea, I could have done that a little bit differently. So yeah, I completely agree with, with all of that everything you've said about management leadership, and about connection and communication is all a journey.

Carla Miller 06:31
Absolutely and how did your career path take you to the point where you were writing a book on this?

Felicity Dwyer 06:37
Thank you. Well, my career at the moment, or has almost 20 years, I've been an independent consultant, facilitator, trainer and coach, and my specialist areas of management, particularly moving into management, you know, first line management, as well as moving up into more middle management area, and of course, communication. So those two, those two topics are the ones that I I train on and speak on. My career wasn't a really conventional path.

I left school at 17. I had had enough by then for reasons I won't bore your readers or listeners with. But I decided to go into the workplace. I worked and worked my way, way out quite quickly, I worked in publishing industry, I worked briefly in HR. And then I ended up in my 30s, I did a year's contract at the Arts Council in their research and policy team, which was really interesting. So I had more of a project coordination role and communications role. And then I worked for an organisation called the voluntary sector National Training Organisation. And they were effectively a Industry Skills body looking at, you know, what skills do we need for charities and other voluntary organisations to progress. And my role was really quite interesting because it was internal and external communication. So I was based in London, but we had offices in Belfast, in Scotland, in Wales. And so it was about coordinating approaches between those four nations, as well as having an outward focused role.

So I was responsible for external communications, like our newsletter. And then, in my time there, I developed two websites for the organisation, a basic one, and then a more sort of complex or singing or dancing one. So all things connected the internal and external communications for that, that organisation. And while I was there, while I was working for this organisation, which was based at ncvo, I had a bit of an epiphany. And I got the opportunity to be a part of a peer learning group. And the facilitator of that group was a woman called Maggie. And not only did Maggie and I end up being colleagues and friends but when I saw what he was doing, I suddenly thought this is something I would like to do. It was really I saw model having sort of felt my way through a career to that day, I actually had a model of what I'd like to do. So I ended up, I did some training as a coach, I trained as a facilitator. I trained as a trainer, you know, I've done all those sorts of things. And I got to the point where I felt I was ready to start on my own.

So I've actually been working for myself for some years, and I absolutely love it. So that's kind of the career history. Very briefly, the other sort of parallel side, I think, which is really important to my approach, and the ideas I put in the book is I've had a passion for lifelong learning, and I mean that quite genuinely. So I left I left school at 17 I didn't really touch learning, you know, in a formal sense till I was about 24. And then I took a drama class and that just opened up a whole world not only did I study drama and get involved in sort of community theatre, but I also started learning more things. I learned psychology and counselling. And I just Yeah, I just got the learning bag. And that's why I'm now feel very privileged that I'm in a role where I can facilitate learning for other people, because I genuinely love to learn. And I love to facilitate that. So that's, that's the potted history.

Carla Miller 10:27
Well it sounds like you're exactly where you're meant to be fulfilling your why, and your mission, and we're kindred spirits on the learning thing, as you can see, from the view of my bookcase that you've got, for me, it's I mean, I do love, of course, but I bankrupted myself on courses. So for me, it's books, which are slightly more affordable. And I just love the feel of a book. So tell us about your book, what's it about? And what do you cover in it?

Felicity Dwyer 10:53
Thank you. Well, it's called Crafting Connection: Transform how you communicate with yourself and others and I've structured it around a model that I've called connecting, and 3d, or connecting in three dimensions. And the first dimension of connection, and communication, I'll talk a little bit about difference between those two in a minute, actually, if you're interested, the first dimension is connecting with yourself. And, you know, until you kind of understand yourself and feel grounded, you know, in who you are, at this point in time, because it changes all the time, it's difficult to really connect with another person, in my view, or if you're not grounded in yourself, maybe you are connecting with another person, but you risk losing yourself in the other person, if that makes sense. So it's about having that groundedness in your own being, but also being really open to listening to another person to hearing what they have to say, to allowing them to, to influence you. Because if you think about, you know, one of the differences traps, perhaps between connection and communication, both of which are important. But communication could be saying notice, when the council saying you know, the roads gonna be closed, but connection does involve a sense that you're interacting, that your visit, there's a mutual interest, that you're potentially changing each other, you know, it's just that there is something between you that is more than just the message that you're sharing, it's about that interpersonal link, if you like.

So the first dimension is connecting within connecting with yourself, the second one is connecting with, so that's connecting with another person, or people. And the third one I've called connecting beyond and that's because I wanted to get in the idea as well, that we're all part of something bigger. And obviously, that works on many different levels. So in an organisation, you know, you're part of the culture within the organisation, and that influences you and in turn your influence it. But also the networks and things that were part of, you know, do you feel you've got the right connections, communities where you can really be yourself. And I ended up in a little bit of a philosophical chapter at the end about, you know, just feeling connected to, you know, the wider hole, the fact that we're all part of the big human family that we are connected to, you know, the world we live in. And, you know, I believe understanding of the more holistic and ecological nature of how we're all connected is never been more important than it is, is today. So I don't get I don't bang readers on the head with that. But I just put a little bit at the end, just a bit of, you know, this is why I think connection is so important.

Carla Miller 13:46
Interesting, and I'd like to delve into some of those a little bit if that's okay. So connecting within, which I love and aligns a lot, I've got a programme called lead from within my talk about seeing yourself as a leader first, and I am like I said, love learning, so I'm sure I can learn from you. What, how do you start to do that? Maybe if you feel disconnected, or you? I mean, I know a lot of us feel disconnected from our bodies, don't we? So we think our bodies just carry our minds away. What are your what's your approach to actually connecting within?

Felicity Dwyer 14:23
I'm going to start with the body actually, because you raised it and I think that's so important. And I completely, completely agree with what you said, I, I talked about, you know, we almost think of our bodies as being in service of our minds.

Actually, our minds have only evolved to keep our bodies alive and the two are so intimately linked. And there are just very simple things you can do. You know, to bring yourself back into your body, and I'll just share something that in preparations a couple of things I did in preparation for this interview. The first thing I did was move, because our bodies are meant to move. But also there's a lot of research and you may have come across some of this in your own, you know, your own reading and your own teaching that you know that when we move, it affects the way we think.

There's a fascinating piece of research, I think it's in dance psychology by Peter Lovatt and I quoted in the book, that if people were asked to dance, and you know, do a sort of structured dance with, you know, set steps and moves, it did help sort of logical thinking. And when people were asked to dance and use free movement in a more than that helped with the sort of more creative thinking. So I just felt, you know, a little bit of evidence that, you know, the way we move our bodies can affect the way the way our minds work. So it's partly about moving. And that's what I did in the preparation for this I did, I normally do about 10 or 15 minutes movement every morning just to get everything moving. The other thing you can do is just obviously, think yourself into the body a couple of little tips.

First one I don't think is even in the book, but it's come to mind now is in the morning, even for you get out of bed, it can be quite helpful just to almost like wiggle your fingers, wiggle your toes, just bring your mind where it's been in the night, just bring it down into your body before you get up. That's a nice little one. And then if you've got something like a podcast and interview a meeting, just bring your attention down and maybe just feel physically feel your feet on the floor. And whenever I'm giving a talk or anything like that, or going into perhaps a conversation, I'm a little bit nervous, I just remind myself that I'm supported by the floor, and grounded. And it does just help to send to you. And the other thing is that when you're speaking to someone, so I'm trying to do with you now, consciously, is I've got a little bit of my attention on my feet on the floor. So I'm kind of aware of them. And most of my attention is with you. So it's just practising, you know, small things, just say a little bit of my tension is with my body, I'm in my body. And I'm also with you. And of course you can practice that when you're not with someone and then eventually you get to the point where you can, you can sort of combine the two, you still have to remember to do it. But you can combine the two and I you know, my sense is that when I'm connected with my body, I find it easier to connect with other people. That's my self sense.

Carla Miller 17:31
I love that. And I have too mini questions for you. One, how does it feel when you when you put your feet on the floor? What are you hoping to achieve by that?

Felicity Dwyer 17:41
It's partly that a little bit of your attention is, is with the physical reality, because I think so often now. And I think social media and all the time we spend on electronics has affected this, it's so easy for our minds to so get drawn out of our bodies that we are not connected with, you know, we're not centred, we're not connected with, with the physical reality of who we are. So it just brings that element back in. So this idea of 3D communication, the idea of the three dimensions came to me, I'm just gonna give an example because that might explain it more easily. It was when we were during lockdown, we were talking with people on Zoom. And when you're talking on zooms we are now even if you can see the other person and their face, it's still very flat. But if you remember that you are three dimensional being said, get sense of your own body and space. And the other person is you know, there's a person beyond the screen and you're in the wider, you know, the wider network of everything that connects us. It's almost like if you can bring that, that feeling to it.

It's not just talking to a face on a screen, it's showing up with your whole self and, and recognising that the other person is an embodied being, you know, behind the screen. The flatness is just an illusion, if you like it's it's just the medium is not quite up yet to the to the reality.

Carla Miller 19:05
How interesting. And as you were saying that I was going to practising doing that, and there's a sense of depth. Yes. Oh, interesting. And then the other thing I wanted to ask you was you said you did 15 minutes of movement. Now are you doing? You're doing yoga? Are you doing tai chi, are you having a little booty around your living room? What did your 15 minutes of movement look like?

Felicity Dwyer 19:27
Well, my 15 minutes today was dance. Sometimes it's walking in nature and, and walking, generally not listening to a podcast, for example, just trying to be there as much as possible in the physical world. Nothing gets listened to podcasts. But there's also there's something about taking a break from input, because there's so much input going on. And you need to balance in my view input. I mean, I can read take input Wherever. But versus integration and allowing yourself time to process to think, in my dancing this morning, I thought of maybe some ideas to bring to the conversation that may or may, we may or may not discuss them. But it was about just giving myself a break from thinking, but you know, allowing myself to move and just allowing thoughts to come to me if you like, in the in the movement.

Carla Miller 20:24
Fantastic, well you're talking to a fellow dancer here. So I spent my youth dancing and have always loved to destress and actually have forgotten that I used to do this, I would put music on and just dance around my living room. And as a, when I was younger, my ideal goal would be or dream would be to have like a big hole when no one else in there and just to be able to dance across it. And before I have particular things, I will have a little booty to an empowering song. But it's really interesting. I've explored things like five rhythms and near dancing, where you can tap into trapped energy current you and release it. And I always say to people, like, I mean, I love coaching but it can sometimes be quite in your head. And for some of us, we need to complement that with something like that kind of therapeutic dance, or breath work or something that is really in that body. And I read something recently about the nervous system, where we assume our brain tells our body what to do. But actually 80% of the messages go from our body to our brain, which was fascinating. To me, I was like, Oh, I really need to do more of this.

So I love those tips. Thank you. Okay, so that's some really practical ways that we can connect within now in the context of leadership. And the workplace. Obviously, connecting with is a big deal. And it sounds like that's something that you didn't necessarily come naturally to you that you learnt to do. Tell us more about what we can do to get better at that.

Felicity Dwyer 22:02
Yes, I think one of the key things that I call it, I think the master skill, I say, in the book, The chapter is called something like listening the master skill, or it might be might have changed. But I think the key to any kind of connected communication, is the ability to listen now is, you know, arguably equally important to be able to communicate your, your message. But if you're not listening, if you're not able to respond to what you're hearing to what you're seeing in the other person, then it's unlikely that that you'll get that real real level of connection. And good leadership is flexible leadership and involves as you're very well known, you know, different leadership styles, understanding what people on your team want to need. And so you need that ability to, you know, be be centred in yourself to be clear, to provide a role model, and also to be able to adapt, while still being true to yourself, if that makes sense. And I think the practical way, or one of the practical ways of doing that is through listening, listening and observation.

Carla Miller 23:18
And there's a discipline to that isn't there? I mean, I think some of it some introverts probably do a bit more listening and reflecting and some extroverts are like, let's just get the idea out there. Before it flips away from my head. I talked to someone who's a bit of both. What if, if we're someone that perhaps isn't naturally good at listening, what can we do to improve our listening skills?

Felicity Dwyer 23:41
Okay, I would say the first thing to do? Well, I'll talk a little bit it's okay, we'll talk a little bit about levels of listening and theories of listening. Levels of listening is one of the things I've talked about in the in the book and in training courses. And it's just noticing the different levels at which we listen and interact. And none of them are wrong, but they're not all appropriate in the right situation. So the first level, I just go superficial listening, and that's the kind of listening that you're a mum. So I am sure that you do this at times. I do an awful lot when you know Charles talking to you. And yeah, you are sort of nodding because you want to sort of be but you've got jobs to do. So I'm sure we all do that at times, if we're honest. And the second level is conversational listening. And this is the general day to day it's the water cooler. You know, how was your weekend? Yeah, it was great. We went to the festival, how was yours? You know, and there's a to and fro there's a pattern to it.

The third level, which is the level, the minimum level that you're looking for, as a leader and manager in a meaningful conversation is active listening. And then there's a fourth level, which is sometimes called deep listening. And the difference between In the level of wills is where your attention lies. So when you're listening actively, your attention is more with the other person than with yourself. So with conversational, it goes to and fro, you're not going too deep with active listening, you're actually working your code into conversation, wanting to listen to the other person to show them that you're listening, and to respond to what they're saying. In the deep listening level, that's what you might find in a counselling or obviously in some coaching conversations. And is there a clear demarcation, I'm not so sure. But with deep listening, really, the entire purpose is listening to help the other person to think more clearly. And, you know, to generate their own thinking. I'm a time to think facilitator, amongst other things, and a lot of that approach is really just about listening. And you do not interrupt you, you go in with the approach that, you know, someone is able to think for themselves, and your job is purely to help them think through the quality of your attention. And in a management situation, active listening, it tends to be a bit more to and fro and you might be in an appraisal or you might be talking about what what needs to be done for the week.

So the active listing level is appropriate, I would say for the majority of management and leadership conversations. So how do you do it? The most important thing, in my view, is to set the intention to listen, if you go into a conversation, and you said to yourself, Okay, I'm going to go into this conversation, and I'm going to do my best to listen and understand, you know, the other person's perspective. That's half the battle, just reminding yourself The other thing I find quite helpful. And as a coach, you'll know this, obviously, is to bring that attitude of what I call gentle curiosity. So it's not a it's not a nosiness. It's not wanting to know something because you want to know it, it's more about, I'm interested in how that person thinks I'm interested in what their solution is to this problem. I'm interested in what they think they need to do to improve their performance. So it's, it's that interesting, what they have to say. And keeping that there. And the third thing, which is very much a one of Nancy clients, is not to interrupt. Now, you know, yes, the sometimes if someone is taking up too much airspace in the meeting, then your role as a facilitator or chair may be to say, Okay, we need to move on, give someone else a chance. But most people are too quick to come in, even if they don't interrupt, they're too quick to come in with their view.

So it's that just giving people that little bit more space, not being afraid of a pause or a gap in the conversation. So just holding back a little bit longer, just allowing someone to finish their thought, you know, if it's appropriate when it's appropriate, which in most situations, I would argue it would be. Yeah, so someone never feels rushed, they feel they can think themselves through. And then you can come in with your questions or your perspective, but giving people that little bit of extra time, but I think it all comes down to going in tension to listen, and gentle curiosity and what the other person thinks. Also, you know, it is helpful to be clear about if you've got a particular message to deliver, say, around performance, or something that you're really clear about your thoughts before you go in. So that you can always let that go. So you know what you're going to say, but you don't need to be just thinking about that you go, and you know, what you're going to say the more interesting part is how the other person sees it, and how the other person reacts, responds to what you say, you know, do they already know, this? And they want to talk about ways of, of improving, or is this a blind spot? Do they not yet know, in which case, you know, it's, it's really about helping them understand or, you know, hearing, you know, how they see it and, and accepting that, you know, they have a view and you have a view and you might not be right, you know, I think there's something around the confidence to be open to what someone says, in the knowledge that this might change how you think a little bit, you know, and that's when you really get that, that connection, if you're open to open to change.

Carla Miller 29:36
I really liked that point. When you mentioned it earlier about it changing. You could change each other. And that's that kind of cognitive flexibility of actually, yeah, I've got a perspective on this, but there are other perspectives and actually, they could really shift my own perspective. I really like that i Yeah, and like you said, it really does feel like a genuine connection I can imagine if more managers, and I'm thinking particularly a manager, because I think about that kind of one to one situation. So obviously leaders manage people as well.

If more managers went in with that intention, and that open attention to this, and then that openness to change, do you think we'd be having more powerful conversations? I think so. Yeah. Imagine what could change. If we didn't always feel as manly obviously, I think as managers and leaders, sometimes we get stuck in this thing I need to be right, I need to have the answers. I'm there to solve the problems. And actually, that idea of really listening and like you say that gentle curiosity can lead to a much better quality conversation that should improve work on both sides. So I love that. And then the connection beyond which is a great name. For it, now, I'm a bit of a, I was gonna say, a bit of a hippie, but actually, that diminishes that I take a Buddhist a pro approach to life, where we are all part, we're all made up of energy. And to some level, you know, we're all one. So that really appeals to me, how do you get that message across to people who perhaps are not quite so inclined to think in that direction?

Felicity Dwyer 31:27
Again, it's, it's about knowing who you're speaking to. And I think for some people, it's really helpful to just think about the science of it. Because it is absolutely true. If you're, you know, we are not exactly the same people that we were at the start of the conversation in a in a very, very physical sense, because we have taken in oxygen molecules and exchange them. And, you know, so I think it's understanding that, you know, it is genuinely a physical truth. That we are, that we are, we are constantly changing, that we are constantly connected. And clearly, it's a sense, a systems thinking, which again, is a scientific way, I think, something that science has gone a bit wrong in its communication, I think scientists are, are acknowledging this now. And I'm not saying this as a scientist, I'm married to a scientist, but my understanding is that a person's understanding, but they've used there is a phrase sort of a positive feedback loop, which is used when a system starts to sort of exponentially change. And, and because positive is normally means positive, it takes away I think, from the idea that it is, it is a reinforcing feedback. So if you're thinking about climate change, for example, it's just the fact that as we as we put our current atmosphere, it speeds up, you know, melting of glaciers, and it speeds up things that then put more carbon into the atmosphere. And we get this kind of reinforcing loop. Whereas what we're looking for, is ideally, more of a balancing more of a balancing approach. So to bring that down to communicate.

This is where like, this is, when I go off on one call to read, you know, it is that balance with ourselves and other it's the balance about, you know, we are an integrated whole as a being as a person, but we are also part of a larger hole, which is an organisation or community. And, you know, it's It's turtles all the way up, really, I mean, we really are all connected, but it is, you know that it is science, you that you don't necessarily need a philosophical or spiritual explanation for that. For people who might dismiss that, I think there's a science, there's a wonderful book, I think it's called the self delusion. It's on my bookshelf, but I can't see it right now. But it's written by an ecologist, and it sort of talks about, you know, some of these ideas about how we, we change and that there isn't really a sort of there a self there, it's kind of generated by the processes in our body, but he also talks about, you know, how everything is connected.

So I think, is this answer your question, or this is always this going to off piece, but essentially, I think there is a way in through the sign science of it, as well as, you know, the more Buddhist or, you know, more of the spiritual approach, because they are both, they are both true. They're not either or they're, you know, they're both they're both wasted the truth, if you like,

Carla Miller 34:39
Wonderful, and yeah, and yes, it did make sense. Thank you. And so if, as a leader, we're able to do more of this connecting within connecting with and connecting beyond what benefits does that have for us as a leader in in our career and for the people that we work? With? Why does this matter?

Felicity Dwyer 35:00
Awe, it really matters. Firstly, it just makes our lives feel richer. You know, when you feel connected to somebody in a How does that feel, that's, that's a good feeling. When you go into work and you feel you've got a connection with people on your team, you've got, you've got a connection with your manager, you've got connecting with people who work for you, you know, that just adds a depth of meaning to work. And even if you're in a job where the day to day work is fairly mundane, the thing that can make a difference. And what is getting lost, I think in some workplaces today, is just that sense of connection or camaraderie, which is perfectly compatible with working hard and doing a good job. It's, you know, they're not they're not either or.

So I think that that can make workplaces a happier place to be. And I think the balancing side of it as a leader or a manager, you know, you do need to have, you know, you need to maintain boundaries, because you have your role. But clear boundaries are part, you know, allow you to connect, so this is who I am, this is this my boundaries, and I'm interested in you, and I'm willing to listen to you, so the two can absolutely be there. So yeah, it makes my life more worthwhile. It makes workplaces more enjoyable, and arguably much more productive. And it the connecting beyond peace, I don't think we can emphasise the importance enough of it at the moment, the fact that we need to say, these, these connections, and it's really, really hard. You know, in day to day life, when you get bogged down with things you're doing to remember that actually what we do has, has an impact. And sometimes it's quite, you know, sometimes I look at the amount of plastic with thrown away, Carla and I feel, you know, it's quite emotionally, I don't like this, I don't like the fact that, you know, I'm doing this and wanting, you know, wanting perhaps somebody else to solve the problem for, for me, and I think you could, but that's, I suppose example of levels like you can do a lot as an individual, I believe we all do. But we do need to have systems and structures that make it easier for people. And we'll only get those if we're really thinking in a more systemic way. And of course, in a business level, what you do as a leader has an impact on your company, but also your company or your charity has an impact on the customers or the beneficiaries. And I think people who work in charities tend to be very aware of that, you know, people who work in companies do need to be aware of it. And also one of the things I talk about in connecting with yourself, it's connecting with your values, which of course, is something that you're exploring a lot in coaching. But if we connect it with our own values, and we can see there's a real mismatch between our values and our organisational values, you know, there's a couple of things we can do. One is to look for places where we're better suited. But if it's not such a big mismatch, we can think well, how can I impact this organisation? How can I bring my values into the way I show up the way I've communicate the way the organisation works? So you know, bringing bringing that connection as well connecting with what matters to me, and how it impacts people I work with? And what's the wider impact of the work we do?

Carla Miller 38:25
Brilliant. And then I know that as one final question, I know that my listeners will be thinking, I felt like I was connecting quite well with my team. Before we all went remote or virtual. Now, there's a real mix. But there's a lot of hybrid working going on and a lot of remote working going on, you've already given a great tip in terms of noticing kind of those three dimensions. Anything else that you can suggest for someone that wants to build connection or build their listening skills in that virtual context?

Felicity Dwyer 38:57
Yes, I think that I think that getting getting your online meetings, right, is really important. And a few things. So making sure you have meetings of a size where people can talk to each other and exchange. So if you've got a very big team or it's a bigger meeting, you know, have breakout sessions so people can have conversations, asking for cameras on with the option for people to potentially opt out if something's going on. You know, it's never about making people feel uncomfortable. Have a situation where everybody gets to speak in the meeting, having some ground rules around Okay, we're gonna have an opening round now. So you all get to respond. And we won't interrupt or comment. We won't comment until everybody's had a chance to speak. And certainly, whenever I do meetings or courses or anything like this, it's always about getting voices into the room really, really early on. It's bringing in icebreakers which are too cheesy, but which invite people to share something about, about themselves. So it's not putting people on the spot. But it is saying, you know, even if it's just something like, you know, what's what happened at the weekend that made you smile or something, just something that people bring a little bit of themselves outside work. That's, that's just a few thoughts, I think you do need to have conversations, and they don't need to be long.

Nobody wants these endless long meetings. But just a short meeting for connection, I think really does help. If people are new to a team, you often get in a situation where people have worked for a company since before lockdown. And then people have joined post lockdown, and there's almost a bit of a difference. So you need to be asking yourself as a leader or a manager, you know, what needs to happen for this person to feel that they're really part of the team, it may be that they need one to one conversations with, with everybody in the team. And you know, you need to find a way to facilitate that. But you know, it's asking yourself that question rather than me. Me saying the answer. But does that make sense?

Carla Miller 41:06
It does. And if people want to find out more about working with you, or find out when your book is out, where can they go? And when can they buy a book?

Felicity Dwyer 41:18
Thank you. Well, my website is felicitydwyer.com. And my book is available. It's out on the 18th of October. It's available now for pre order for more good book shops. That's the two best ways you can find the book online. And you can visit my website and see there the various things I offer.

Carla Miller 41:42
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for sharing those insights, giving us an introduction to the book, our showing those practical tips as well, because we all love some practical tips. When this episode comes out, there's only a couple of weeks until your book is out. So I if you've listened to this and thought, yeah, there's a lot of depth here that I'd like to explore. I want to as a leader, be able to craft that connection, whether it's with my team with my peers, managing upwards with yourself, then I really recommend this book. So go and pre order it. Go and check out Felicity’s website. But thank you so much Felicity for sharing your energy and passion for this and for creating something that I think is can be a really practical tool for managers and leaders, amongst others.

Felicity Dwyer 42:32
Thank you very much Carla it's been a pleasure speaking with you.

Carla Miller 42:42
If you've listened to the podcast and you want to know more about how we can work together, here are a few places you can look.

First of all, I've got a couple more freebies, I've got a free PDF on increasing your leadership impact at work, and I've also got a free masterclass on becoming a more influential leader without letting self doubt hold you back. So head on over to the website to book yourself a place on the masterclass or to download that PDF.

There are my open programmes Influence and Impact for women at management and leadership level and Be Bolder a four week live assertiveness and confidence course for women at any level.

You can preorder my book Closing the Influence Gap: a practical guide for women leaders who want to be heard.

You can also work with me one to one particularly if you're a senior leader, and you can hire me to work in house to do talks for awareness weeks, one of workshops, a series of workshops or to run my influence and impact programme or be bolder programme in house as a women's leadership or women's empowerment offering.

If you want to talk about any of those on my website, you can drop me an email or you can also book a quick 15 minute chat so we can talk about what you need and how I might be able to help you or your organisation so I look forward to chatting to you. Take care