Carla Miller [00:00:02]:
While some women sail through perimenopause, lots of us struggle with symptoms, including brain fog, sleep issues, hot flushes, and anxiety. Those symptoms can impede our ability to work, impact our confidence, and cause an alarming number of women to leave their jobs. I explore this with my guest, Emma Thomas, founder of Managing the Menopause, and host of the middling along podcast. Emma and I discussed why employers should care about supporting women through this transition, what we, as managers, can do to be supportive of colleagues struggling with perimenopause symptoms, How if you are experiencing those symptoms yourself, how you can talk to your line manager about those symptoms and what support you can request from them. We also talk about Emma's sense model for managing symptoms using lifestyle changes, and she shares her insights on how caffeine and alcohol impact your sleep. Emma is also teaching her sense model inside my women leading community, and we have bimonthly menopause gatherings where we meet to share experiences and coping strategies. Emma is the founder of managing the menopause. Her experience in coaching, internal comms, and change management make her perfectly placed to help organizations plan and execute strategies to become more menopause friendly.

Carla Miller [00:01:22]:
Emma lives in Oxford with her husband and 2 children and is also the director of a CIC operating a wide range of projects within Oxford and beyond. My name is Carla Miller, leadership coach, author, and trainer. And this is the influence and impact podcast for women leaders, helping you confidently navigate the ups and downs of leadership and feel less alone on your journey as a leader. In fortnightly episodes, I share practical tools and insights from myself and my brilliant guests that will help you to succeed in your career. A couple of quick reminders before we jump into the episode. My be bolder confidence and assertiveness course is back and will be running in February. You can still join my women leading community, and you can work with me within your organization. We offer leadership and management training and specific training on influencing and confidence to people of any gender, and I would love to do more of that work in house.

Carla Miller [00:02:18]:
So if you want to find out about the different ways to work with me, head over to my website carlamiller.co.uk. Hi, Emma. Welcome to the Influence and Impact podcast.

Emma Thomas [00:02:33]:
Hi, Carla. It's lovely to be here. Thank you for having me.

Carla Miller [00:02:36]:
Now as the host of the Middling Along podcast and founder of Managing the Menopause, menopause education is obviously something that you care a lot about. How did it come to become so important to you?

Emma Thomas [00:02:50]:
So, if you cast your mind back about three and a half years, for some strange reason, I decided to start a podcast, in lockdown or in one of the lockdowns when I was sort of homeschooling 2 children and trying to, work remotely as well. Don't don't ask me why I thought that was a good idea, but clearly at the time, it seemed like a good creative outlet. And I think that really kind of coincided with quite a sort of step change in how and where and how much we were talking about menopause in the media, certainly. So, you know, the Divina channel 4 documentaries came out over that time. Lots of people who were, sort of writing books and wanted to talk about those, which was great for for sort of somebody running a podcast. But at the time, I was also co chairing our women's network in my last corporate role. And we also sort of pivoted that over lockdown to to become sort of a remote network rather than an in person one. So suddenly, a much kind of bigger global audience, and bringing in sort of external speakers, doing a sort of a deep dive into topics that were important to people.

Emma Thomas [00:03:57]:
And one of those turned out to be menopause, not purely selfishly. Really, that was, you know, because I was going through I'm going through perimenopause. And that sort of, I guess, snowballed because I was finding out so much about it through the podcast and interviewing dozens of experts in sort of midlife and menopause. I had a personal interest, but I could also see how much of an impact it potentially was having on people in a workplace environment. So when I had an opportunity to to launch Managing the Menopause, I decided that, you know, I really wanted to to make sure that companies were supporting their employees. Unfortunately, the research shows us that 1 in 10 women will step down from a role because they're not fully supported if they're, you know, struggling at this particular sort of life transition. And I work alongside my sister-in-law who is a menopause specialist who, when she's not off doing that, sort of specifically helping people one to one work works with me. So, I guess I've got a sort of a personal interest, a professional interest, and a and a family link there.

Carla Miller [00:05:02]:
Excellent. And it seems like we quite often interchange the words menopause and perimenopause. Can you give us a definition of those so that we know what the difference between the two is?

Emma Thomas [00:05:13]:
Yeah. It can be a little bit confusing. A lot of the time when we read something about menopause or we hear somebody talking about menopause, what they're actually talking about is perimenopause. So perimenopause is that sort of time around menopause. So menopause itself is one day technically, if you're going to be pedantic about it. It's the day when it's been 12 months since somebody's last menstrual period. So all of the time leading up to that one day is your perimenopause. Now that's hugely variable.

Emma Thomas [00:05:44]:
It might be a few months. It could be 10 years at the sort of opposite end of the spectrum. And somebody can be experiencing a mixture of symptoms that come and go, fluctuate, change more, some come, some sort of stay, over that period of time. And and everybody's experience of that really is unique. Now, obviously, after that one day, our menopause, that kind of pin in the in the, in in the sort of mid air, if you like. We're post menopausal then. And we can now be living half of our adult lives in that postmenopausal state, and maybe we'll we'll come back and talk a little bit about that later on.

Carla Miller [00:06:23]:
Interesting. And it can hit at different ages as well, can't it? So I think, traditionally, we well, we typically tend to think, like, people are are in perimenopause, in their forties and fifties. But, some of us, including myself, it can hit as early as well, I was actually in menopause, they believe, in my late thirties. So and that seems to be coming increasingly happening as well. I don't know if you've noticed that, but I'm now talking to friends who are in their late thirties who are experiencing perimenopause symptoms.

Emma Thomas [00:06:55]:
I think we're just more aware of it, which is only a good thing. But there are still preconceptions out there, and it's not uncommon to find somebody who's been struggling with symptoms for for years before they kind of do that, put 2 and 2 together and and understand what's going on. So the average age in sort of UK, US is 51 years to to kind of reach that point of menopause, but obviously, you can be in perimenopause for theoretically a decade before that. So, yes, somebody could be experiencing symptoms. But, actually, there's not an insubstantial number of people who will reach that point of menopause between 4045, so it's about 1 in 20. That's that's not insignificant. And then another round sort of 1 or 2 in every 100 will enter menopause under the age of 40. We call that premature ovarian insufficiency or POI.

Emma Thomas [00:07:48]:
1 in a 1000 under 30 years old. So yeah, I think it's why that's so important that we understand what to what to look out for so that we can do that kind of joining the dots and and sort of understand what might or might not be related. And sometimes it it can be hard to sort of tease out those symptoms from the everyday stresses of modern life or something else that might be going on in terms of our health. So it's not always clear cut and obvious, you know, that we're in perimenopause. Sometimes it is a bit of a a bit of a guessing game.

Carla Miller [00:08:25]:
Absolutely. And we're gonna look at it in a work context, obviously. So let's just set the scene for that. Why should menopause be on every employer's agenda? So you've already talked about shocking 1 in 10 women thinking about stepping down because of menopause. Why else should they care?

Emma Thomas [00:08:44]:
Well, so that's that was a report from the the Fawcett Society in 2022. And as well as those actually leaving, 1 in 4 were considering leaving their current role. And, obviously, that can have a really significant impact on gender diversity, especially at senior levels in an organisation. You've potentially got very experienced staff members leaving the business who are costly to replace. They're taking a lot of organisational knowledge with them. We know that sort of senior, female leaders in the business are very often involved in sort of, you know, mentoring other colleagues. They're they're role models for people coming up through the business. People notice, if there aren't sort of good percentages of senior females.

Emma Thomas [00:09:29]:
So if you've got younger women coming into the organization, they will be looking for their role models. And that same report actually found that that only 22% of women and trans men experiencing the menopause disclosed it at work. You know, people were less likely to go for promotions. So, you know, all of that is having an impact throughout and not just then on people's, performance, on potentially levels of staff absence, on engagement, productivity. And, you know, not to sort of put too much of a negative spin on it, but it can be a risk for employers if they are, you know, potentially might face employment tribunals, to connected with discrimination, for example.

Carla Miller [00:10:13]:
Okay. Lots of reasons then to take this seriously. And as a leader of a team, what do we need to know about supporting colleagues through menopause and and midlife in general, I guess?

Emma Thomas [00:10:28]:
So I think the first thing to say is you don't have to be an expert in in menopause necessarily to have a conversation with somebody. A lot of the time, it's, you know, it will be about those same, you know, soft skills of, you know, having a difficult conversation with somebody, particularly. But doing that with with empathy is helpful if your organization has some kind of guidelines, policy, resources that you can sort of look at beforehand. I think also being mindful of the fact that, you know, quite often, at the point that we might get into menopause, we there can be a lot of other things going on. That sort of wonderful term of the midlife collision. So, you know, we might be peak juggling with, sort of, children, we're having children later on in life. Some of us, sort of teenagers who might be struggling with their own mental health issues or, you know, going away to university, coming back from university. Elderly parents, so one in 5 women in in the UK over 55 is an unpaid carer, for example.

Emma Thomas [00:11:34]:
They might have other stress factors going on, divorce, bereavement. So, you know, I think some of it is just having those regular check ins with people and asking those questions of, you know, are you okay if they if they don't seem to be okay? And then leaving it really the ball is in their court as to what how much they want to talk about this because for some people, it you know, it can be a difficult conversation. And not everybody wants to go into great detail about their particular kind of constellation of symptoms, or they might want to sort of talk about the ones that are impacting the most in the workplace.

Carla Miller [00:12:14]:
That makes sense. And if you're someone who is experiencing menopause symptoms that are impacting you at work, is this something you would recommend raising with your line manager? And if so, how do you suggest we do that?

Emma Thomas [00:12:29]:
If it's impacting you at work, then absolutely. Yes. You know, your employer has a duty of care to make reasonable adjustments for you if you are struggling. So if you want to have that conversation, you know, I think a little bit of preparation goes a long way. So first of all, some if you're not already sort of symptom tracking, definitely do some sort of symptom tracking and logging. You know, what are your symptoms? Do they sort of change and fluctuate through your cycle or sort of, you know, how are particular ones impacting you at work? So do that kind of initial preparation. Start making a few bullet points about, you know, what you want to say in that meeting. Because, you know, if you're suffering with brain fog and you're kind of going in there without without a few notes, then that can that adds more stress layers onto onto having a difficult conversation.

Emma Thomas [00:13:18]:
So definitely asking them for a one to one somewhere quiet. You're not gonna be disturbed. You're gonna have plenty of time to explain what's going on, and how it's impacting you. Remember, they may not have much, if any, understanding of what menopause is and how it can impact someone. It depends on whether, you know, their organisation has done any training or whether they have a menopause policy. They may not. Or menopause, sort of included in their internal policies. And even if they do, your line manager may not be fully aware of those.

Emma Thomas [00:13:48]:
And also, you know, a little bit maybe, if it's appropriate about what you've already tried, what are you trying to help mitigate your symptoms. And then really have some thoughts about what would be supportive, what would be helpful for them to kind of provide for you, if that's feasible. And then, you know, that that may not necessarily be possible. They might might need to go away and have some conversations with HR or occupational health or somebody else within the organisation. But really making sure then there's a follow-up stage where you can come back together again to discuss that a bit further. You know, what kind of support is available to you? What can you do? How often are you going to check-in? Depending on what symptoms are and what your organization is like, they might ask to do a risk assessment. Some organizations now are doing things called workplace inclusion passports. So so, you know, all of this can be documented, and potentially if you move within the organization, that agreement can follow you so that you don't have to kind of go through that process again with a a new line manager.

Emma Thomas [00:14:52]:
So those are the kinds of things I would sort of suggest if you're gonna prepare for having that conversation to set yourself up for success, really.

Carla Miller [00:15:00]:
Excellent. Fantastic structure for people to use there. And I know you work with organizations a lot on menopause training and awareness. What if someone's sitting there thinking, well, what can work actually do to help? Like, what what reasonable adjustments have you seen organizations make so that people can go, oh, yeah. That might help me or no. That's not gonna work for me.

Emma Thomas [00:15:20]:
So I think I mean, the stereotypical one is, oh, yeah. You can have a desk fan. Which might help if you're having having health flushes. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, obviously, everyone's combination of of symptoms are going to be different and everyone's workplace is going to be different. So some things are going to be be more appropriate. But, I know some, larger organizations now have, you know, specific rooms that people can use. And it doesn't have to be, you know, labeled as the menopause room.

Emma Thomas [00:15:52]:
Right? Some some time or another, most of us might need some some time out just to kind of compose ourselves and have a little bit of quiet time. So maybe that's an option where, you know, somebody is really struggling or, you know, perhaps they've had a terrible night's sleep, but they've struggled into the office anyway. Can they go and, you know, is there somewhere quiet they can just sort of go and have a lie down for half an hour? And, you know, that might make a lot of difference to them. Flexible working is a is a huge one. So having that flexibility again to say sort of spontaneously, really, oh, I've had a, you know, I've had a terrible night. Is it is it okay if I start a bit bit later today and I'll I'll make the time up? Or I've I've got really heavy flooding, period flooding today. I just can't come into the office. Is that okay? And and knowing that that your organization, your manager has your back, that you can sort of take that flexibility as and when you need it is incredibly helpful.

Emma Thomas [00:16:46]:
You know, it might be that somebody has a work uniform, for example. So a lot of employers now are thinking about making those uniforms more menopause friendly and appropriate. So, you know, natural fibers rather than nylon, you know, are the are the, you know, the waistbands adjustable? Can people have them in in different sizes if, you know, they're suffering from kind of bloating or, can have extra sets of uniform if they're suffering from hot flushes or flooding and they they might need to change during the day? And do they have access to somewhere that they can go and change that, you know, that's appropriate or have a sort of have a shower? Are there sort of those self contained restrooms where people can, you know, rather than individual stalls with a wash basin outside. So there are lots of different things, really interesting things going on in facilities as well in terms of mapping, sort of hot spots and cool spots within buildings and signposting those to people, because we're all doing a lot more hot desking now. So, you know, it might be that your facilities team will be able to sort of say to you, well, you know, these are all the desks that are near a window that can be opened or, you know, this side of the office is hotter when the sun shines through a particular time of day. So so many things that you wouldn't necessarily think about. Standing desks as well, great one, if you're, you know, really struggling, with sort of stiffness and joint pain. So making sure that you're not sort of sitting in the same position all the time.

Emma Thomas [00:18:08]:
So as I say, you know, it's very much what are the symptoms and then thinking about creative ways to to help somebody, to work around those.

Carla Miller [00:18:17]:
Lots of suggestions there and lots that I wouldn't have thought of, definitely. Now, a couple of things come up a lot when I talk to my clients about symptoms, and I'd like to love to touch on one of them in particular. So one that comes up a lot is anxiety, but I think that's a very big topic to go into. The other one is brain fog. And I know for me, brain fog suddenly became really challenging. And for me, it looked like memory loss. So I used to have a very, very sharp memory. I could remember pretty much any conversation if someone mentioned to me.

Carla Miller [00:18:49]:
I can remember all the detail. And I got to the point where I couldn't remember even having had those conversations at all. And I have to say that has now improved a bit, but just sometimes clarity of thought. So I used to facilitate workshops, and and I was great at it, and I could always find the thread of what was happening. And it got to the point where I was like, well, I can't remember people's names. I'm not I I've got literally fog slowing me down instead of having being able to see a clear path. And I found it incredibly challenging, and it really knocked my confidence as well, actually. Do you have any suggestions? And I know brain fog does look different for different people, but do you have any suggestions or workarounds for people when they are experiencing that brain fog? Because it can sometimes genuinely get in the way of you being able to perform in the way that you used to perform, can't it?

Emma Thomas [00:19:39]:
Yeah. And and we know that probably around 48% of people do struggle with it. It sounds quite innocuous, doesn't it, brain fog? But I've heard so many people say to me, oh, I was convinced that I had early onset dementia. I was terrified. So the good news is that we kind of we do come out the other side. Our brains are essentially, you know, remodeling themselves during perimenopause. So don't get me started on that because that's a whole you know, that would be a whole hour conversation. But, yeah, essentially, whilst we're kind of we're going through that time where, you know, our brain function can be erratic sometimes, let's say.

Emma Thomas [00:20:14]:
So, yeah, lots of practical things that we can do. So kind of come back to that sort of symptom tracking, and thinking about tracking when, you know, are there particular times of day that you're functioning better for doing kind of complex tasks? So if you've got to do some deep focus work, is there particular time of day that you can sort of schedule that? And if you've got sort of lighter sort of replying to emails, easy emails or admin tasks, can you kind of schedule those? Are there particular times of day that you're kind of feeling better, sharper? That's one option. Making sure we're getting enough sleep, which can be easier said than done in perimenopause. But, you know, really prioritizing getting that sleep and sort of protecting your sleep is gonna make a big difference. Trying not to overload our schedules. Good goodness knows I'm terrible for that but, you know, and multitasking. So really try and focusing on one thing at a time. Give yourself a block of time.

Emma Thomas [00:21:07]:
Have a decent break in between things if you've got kind of doing that deep focus work just to kind of let yourself rebound a little bit. Stay hydrated. It's a big one. Our first cues diminish as we get older. I don't know about you but I'll quite often get to sort of 3 o'clock in the afternoon and wonder why I feel groggy and and no energy and I realize I haven't had a drink of water all day. So that's definitely a big one. And, you know, exercise increases blood flow to our brain as well as our muscles. It's transporting oxygen around our body that can really help making sure we're getting some movement in every day.

Emma Thomas [00:21:39]:
And actually, it also, fascinating more brain stuff, increases something called BDNF, so brain derived neurotrophic factor, and another one called IGF 1. Both of those, brain chemicals are involved in neurogenesis. So improved cognitive function, improved memory, processing speed, really can be super helpful for for addressing brain fog in a a very kind of impactful way. Think about technology. Technology is your friend. I like to use an AI notetaker called Fathom. Otter AI is another one. You know, they basically run-in the background while you're having a meeting, and they'll give you a sort of a transcript or a summary.

Emma Thomas [00:22:17]:
Bullet journaling, something like that. So kind of having a sort of a system for for organizing things, to do apps. I use Google Calendar reminders for everything. So yeah, think about ways that you can use technology. And it may be that your your kind of employer can help with that as well. So those are just a few. If you want to supplement, a lot of people find Lion's Mane It's really, really good. And actually, there's some really interesting research coming out or more research coming out all the time about creatine, which is creatine monohydrate.

Emma Thomas [00:22:50]:
It's incredibly safe. It's very well researched. A lot of people have been using it for sort of muscle strength and muscle development, but there's a lot of research showing, the the benefit for brain health as well. So those are another two options.

Carla Miller [00:23:07]:
Excellent. Yes. I've got, a couple of friends that use Lion's Mane and have found that really helpful. For me, just in terms of what has worked for me, in terms of workarounds, I now keep very thorough notes when I have meetings. So previously, I wouldn't. I'd be, like, a 100% present in the meeting, but now I have to keep notes so that I can then look at those and go, okay. That's what's going on. I have more systems in place.

Carla Miller [00:23:32]:
I have to be more organized. So before, I would never prep questions for a podcast interview. I would just go with the flow and enjoy it because I do not enjoy prepping. I love conversations. But now I would have complete blanks if that happens. So now I do prep my questions a lot more than I did previously. And then the final thing that worked for me, so I was already on HRT. I had heard people on podcasts talking about testosterone.

Carla Miller [00:23:58]:
So I went to my GP and asked, and they said, we can't give it to you. You have to go to be referred to a consultant. So I was referred to a consultant, had to wait 3 months for that. I think that depends on which county you're in, which health authority you're in, basically, basically, whether GP's

Emma Thomas [00:24:13]:
3 months is pretty good, to be fair. Yes. I know. Well, I'm quite persuasive.

Carla Miller [00:24:16]:
I just keep annoying them until they do what I want them to do. Anyway, I waited 3 months, had to make the case for testosterone, and, actually, the only reason they can give it to you, as you all know, is for libido. So I made the case around libido, and within 2 weeks, I was back to 80% of my previous capacity. Now it's not improved beyond 80% of my previous capacity. That's interesting. And I would say now so that was probably, maybe a year ago. No. Maybe 2 years ago now.

Carla Miller [00:24:49]:
I'd say now I'm starting to feel like, oh, I could probably do with a little bit more in that it's going down. But I got my energy back, my focus, my clarity, my memory got better. Just the fog disappeared, and that made a big And

Emma Thomas [00:25:04]:
that difference. A lot of people have said that.

Carla Miller [00:25:07]:
They need to do research on this, don't they?

Emma Thomas [00:25:09]:
They they and they are. There is there is more. I mean, you know, as with anything else, the the sort of the investment into into women's health is research is is just pathetic. But but there is more research being done on testosterone. But obviously, you know, in terms of getting it prescribed, on the NHS, they have to follow the existing evidence base. So, that we do have a deep dive on testosterone on the podcast. So if, I'll I'll send you a link if you want and and send people there to find out more.

Carla Miller [00:25:41]:
Excellent. Now you have a fantastic model that you have created. So tell us about your sense model. For a start, what what is the purpose of it? Why did you come up with this model?

Emma Thomas [00:25:53]:
So, I mean, you and I both take HRT. I'm, you know, I'm definitely not either sort of anti HRT or or sort of particularly, like, HRT is gonna solve all your problems because as we know, not everyone can take it, not everyone wants to take it, some people take it and hate it, they don't get on with it. But there is such a lot that we can do in terms of sort of modifiable lifestyle changes, for want of a better word, that can support us as we're going through this transition. And actually, I really want people to understand what's going on inside our bodies as we go through this menopause transition and out the other side because it's not as simple as, you know, you're a bit grumpy, you have some hot flushes, maybe you've got some dry skin. Right? It is a complete body system change. Our bodies have estrogen receptors all over them, so do our brains. There's more research also going on about, you know, the importance of progesterone. But if we just focus on estrogen, you know, huge impact on brain health, heart health, bone health, pretty much everything.

Emma Thomas [00:27:02]:
So I wanted to find a way to sort of break that down a bit so that people could understand what are the sort of the levers that that we can pull. What are the kind of the the kind of the big groupings, if you like, of of things that impact both our kind of ability to thrive as we're going through perimenopause, but also impact our health longer term. So you'll remember I talked about postmenopause potentially being half our adult life. So, you know, our risk factors for things like heart disease, osteoporosis, dementia, different forms of dementia, in particular Alzheimer's, are all kind of changing as we come out the other side of that menopause transition. So so SENSE is is a a an acronym, and it stands for sleep, exercise, nutrition, stress, and environment. So there's nothing particularly groundbreaking about this. Right? I'm not necessarily, you know, it's not rocket science. But making some changes in this, you know, window of opportunity, if you like, that sort of that decade that bookends this transition in our lives can be so impactful, both as we're going through it, but more almost more importantly out the other side.

Emma Thomas [00:28:16]:
So, yeah, really, we do a series, a sort of well-being webinar series that does a deep dive into each of those 5 areas, explains kind of what's going on under the hood, if you like. But what's going on inside? What are these kind of hormones changes doing to us? And then what are the things, practical things, that we can do to sort of address those changes and sort of mitigate any of those changes to sort of risks for chronic disease and and so on.

Carla Miller [00:28:45]:
Fantastic. Now I know you deliver these workshops within organizations. I'm also delighted because you're delivering them within women leading as well. So I get to learn all this stuff and so do the members of women leading. But what I would love you to do today is if you could talk us through and maybe just give us one thing we could try for each of those 5 elements of Scent so that people go away with some really practical things that they can try, experiment, see if they work for them.

Emma Thomas [00:29:11]:
Yeah. Sure. If you had a 3 hour podcast, we could we could do it all. But we don't. So let's let's just pick one one of each as you say. So sleep is the first one. So if you're if you're struggling with sleep, 2 very very simple things to look at are, you know, caffeine. Some people are much more sensitive to caffeine than others.

Emma Thomas [00:29:32]:
They might not necessarily realize that. So I definitely say, you know, cutting back on caffeine and not having any caffeine after midday if you're struggling. Caffeine suppresses your adenosine levels which is kind of the what drives your your sleep drive. The other big one is is alcohol. So I think for many of us finding in midlife that, you know, the the trade offs of those kind of couple of glasses of wine or whatever just aren't worth it. Essentially, I know that if I drink more than one glass of wine, it's gonna have a really terrible impact on my sleep. So very often, you know, it's, it's making us kind of hotter at nighttime. So, you know, our our bodies like to be in this very sort of cool range of temperature for sleep.

Emma Thomas [00:30:12]:
So even though you might be getting kind of micro wakings and not really realising it, you're not gonna be getting the same kind of restful sleep that you would get otherwise. It also kinda contributes to those 2 AM, 3 AM wake ups because our, our bodies get a little kind of blood sugar dip, around that time that can can also wake us up. So those would be okay. I'm cheating. That was 2. Exercise. I'm a huge, huge proponent for strength training. I will bang on about it to anybody who will listen to me and stay still long enough.

Emma Thomas [00:30:43]:
But 2 of the things that, you know, that sort of drop in estrogen really impacting on our our kind of bone density, bone health, and and muscle mass. And we can counteract both of those things by building strength and resistance training into our kind of weekly exercise program. So please, if you're not doing any at the moment, start. You don't suddenly have to be, you know, going and power lifting at the gym but just, you know, make a start, start building it in. Ideally, between 2 3 sessions of strength training a week but you know, start where you are. Start and kind of build up from there. Nutrition wise, gosh. I mean, we you know, we we could talk a lot about this.

Emma Thomas [00:31:27]:
And there are so many things. But, couple of things that if people are, you know, thinking about specifically about sort of menopause symptoms, 2 of the things that that we kind of recommend people think about supplementing if they're not already. So vitamin d, obviously, we know we should be taking that sort of during kind of winter months. But Beth actually suggests that for perimenopausal women should be taking vitamin d all all year round. And and also magnesium is another one that people very often find makes a big difference in terms of things like, mood, sleep, and joint pain just to just to name a few. So definitely, you know, if you're not getting enough magnesium in your diet, and most of us probably aren't, then thinking about supplementation for that. Stress, I guess if, you know, just boiling it down to one thing, figuring out your toolkit. What's your toolkit for kind of managing and mitigating stress? And that's gonna look different for everybody.

Emma Thomas [00:32:25]:
But, you know, really trying to sort of build in time and space so that your bodies can kind of recover from our always on go go go lifestyles. And, you know, for one person that that might look like breath work. For somebody else, it might be some mindfulness. For somebody else, it might be, you know, a a really long dog walk listening to a podcast. But whatever it is, make sure that you're you're building that in and you've kind of you've got your toolkit at the ready and you know how to use it. And linked to that, I guess So environment is a bit of a cheat really. It's kind of it's it's the everything else and it's also the kind of the wrapper that goes around everything else because, you know, it it's thinking about our work environment, our home environment, our relationships, our friendships. And how supportive and nurturing or otherwise that environment is can have a huge impact on our ability to make positive changes in all of those other areas that we've already talked about.

Emma Thomas [00:33:22]:
It's easy for me to sit here and say, you know, meal prep, whatever, or, you know, make sure you're you're getting 8 hours, 8, 9 hours good quality sleep at night. And but, you know, we have to be realistic. What's going on in your kind of environment, both work wise and and outside of work. So really thinking about prioritizing ourselves. A lot of us are pretty rubbish about this. Let's face it. We're running around. We're taking care of everybody else.

Emma Thomas [00:33:54]:
We're fairly far down the to do list. Probably, you know, after sort of finishing the the the Sainsbury shop and getting the the the car serviced, we might think about, you know, maybe taking some time out for ourselves. But I, you know, I really do think that this transitional time is a kind of the the boot up the backside to say, you need to be putting yourself at the top of that to do list. Because if you go down, everyone else is going down with you. Right? So building in that self care, that self compassion, that kind of time that I talked about in a way that is gonna work for for an individual and their own individual circumstances. So that's gonna look different for everybody. But, yeah, I do I do really think that this is a a time where we get to prioritize ourselves.

Carla Miller [00:34:47]:
I like the sound of that. And it's interesting you're talking about the strength training because for years, I was like, I am not a weights person. I'll just injure myself. And I started doing People

Emma Thomas [00:34:57]:
think they're gonna bulk up and suddenly get muscly. We're like, it's not gonna happen. Trust me. I've been doing it for 3 years, and I'm still waiting.

Carla Miller [00:35:04]:
I I was pretty sure I wasn't gonna grow massive muscles, to be fair. But then, yeah, I started personal training last October, and it's just once a week. It's much cheaper up north, thankfully. And we do quite heavy weights that I wouldn't do on my own, and in fact, I just don't do any strength training on my own. But I love it. I thought I was gonna hate it. It was gonna be this thing I had to make myself do, and I actually now prefer it. Yeah.

Carla Miller [00:35:27]:
And I feel really powerful afterwards, which feels good. I don't feel drained. I don't even feel sweaty. So it's great. It's more convenient. And it it just feels really good. And I can see myself getting stronger each week, so you get that sense of progress as well. So, highly recommend it.

Carla Miller [00:35:44]:
And for so many reasons, it's basically the most effective way to to be looking after your body with exercise, isn't it, at this time of life?

Emma Thomas [00:35:54]:
Yeah. There's some more research just came out, I think, last week in one of the British medical journals, sport and exercise journals, and they looked at older individuals doing a sort of a trial of of strength and resistance training. And they were even seeing the sort of the positive impact of that 3 years after they'd stopped. So, yeah, I just think we're gonna see be seeing more and more and more research coming out about how important it is. And it's never too late to start. Right? There's a fantastic woman that I follow on Instagram. Her account is train with Joan. She started weightlifting in her seventies.

Emma Thomas [00:36:27]:
I mean, goodness me. I I hope I look like that when I'm whatever she is, 77 to 75. But that that's what I'm going for. Right? I wanna be I wanna be strong. I wanna still be able to lift stuff. I wanna be able to hike up mountains into my seventies and eighties. The only way that we're gonna be able to do that is if we start now.

Carla Miller [00:36:46]:
Yeah. Because every I've been

Emma Thomas [00:36:47]:
up already.

Carla Miller [00:36:48]:
I was listening to a study. So basically, everyone is going to decline. But if you're at a higher level of strength and fitness beforehand, a, you don't decline as quickly, but also you've just got a higher baseline to start with. So you're not gonna decline so low anyway. So even, like, if you're thinking in my late seventies, I want to be able to get up out the chair easily. Like, you need to be doing stuff in your forties and fifties to make sure that that is the case.

Emma Thomas [00:37:13]:
No. I mean, unfortunately, yeah, my mom's in her sort of mid seventies. She's, it it's different slightly because she has dementia and but, yeah, if she's if she's on the floor, takes 2 people to get her up off the floor, she's got no, you know, no strength anywhere really in in her body. And that's that's not unusual. Right? That that sort of we've we've been we've conditioned to shrink ourselves, be thin, be small. And, you know, if that happens, you end up being a little old lady who's frail and, you know, whose bones will break and who has, yeah, very very little resilience. Balance is another huge one. Right? With working on our balance and flexibility.

Emma Thomas [00:37:56]:
All of those things, you know, I'm I'm kind of I I think about it, and I know other people talk about this as well as sort of your kind of health pension. Right? Every day, I'm kind of when I'm doing my half an hour in the morning, I'm putting a deposit into my little old lady's health pension. Right? So that I kind of, little by little, just kind of chipping away at that so that I can kind of withdraw the benefits in another 20 years, hopefully. We don't never know. But

Carla Miller [00:38:23]:
I really like that idea. I do it. When I when I'm brushing my teeth, I stand on one leg for the first minute and then the other leg for the other minute for that balance, for challenging

Emma Thomas [00:38:32]:
your balance. Forget to do that.

Carla Miller [00:38:35]:
I find brushing my teeth so boring. I need to multitask. I I'm also doing an affirmation in my head at the same time, and I wonder why I'm overwhelmed when I try and make even brushing my teeth highly productive. Well, thank you so much, Emma. There's we've covered so much now, and I know, like, I mean, you have a whole podcast. There's there's so much we could talk about. But I think what we've done is help people think about, right, what does menopause look like in the workplace, and how can leaders and individuals make adaptations and have conversations about that. We talked about brain fog, and we've looked at your sense model and shared some really great tips from that.

Carla Miller [00:39:12]:
Now if people want to work with you, how can they do that, Emma?

Emma Thomas [00:39:17]:
So go and have a look at our website, which is www.managingthemenopause.com. We've got free resources on there as well, for both for organizations and for individuals. Sign up for our website if you're interested, or you can drop me an email to emma@managingthemenopause.com and very happily send you over a complete list of all the different sessions that that we offer. And we do one to one coaching as well. So we can we can work with individuals as well as organizations.

Carla Miller [00:39:50]:
Fantastic. So lots of great ways to get involved with Emma. And you can also join Women Leading if you've got if you're dealing with overwhelm and all sorts of things and menopause is one part of that, then you can hang out with Emma there as well. Thanks so much. I'm sure we'll have you back on again to talk about another angle on menopause. But this has been really, insightful. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to this podcast.

Carla Miller [00:40:18]:
I really appreciate you letting me join you during your day. Now if you have loved the podcast, if you found it helpful, please, please, please do head over to wherever you listen to your podcast. Give us a fabulous 5 star rating and a review so that more people can find this podcast and it can grow and reach others. Now if you've listened to the podcast and you're thinking, how do I work with Carla? Just to let you know, we've got 2 open programs at the moment. We have our be bolder confidence and assertiveness course coming up in February. And then I will be running influence and impact, my 3 month women's leadership development program, probably just after Easter. We also work in house with organizations on management and leadership. We're often training people on influencing, on confidence, giving feedback, delegation, all of these things.

Carla Miller [00:41:13]:
So if you find my style useful, please do introduce me to or, suggest that your l and d person gets in touch with me so that we can bring some of this practical training into your organization and make it much easier for you as managers and leaders to perform at your best. Thanks so much. Have a great day.