Carla Miller [00:00:02]:
This week's episode is a little different in that I am the guest and you get to hear me being interviewed for once. I recorded this episode for Lucy Gernon's 360 degree lead her ship podcast. And you'll recall that we had Lucy on my podcast as a guest a few weeks ago as well. Now in this episode, you're gonna hear more about the story of my career and how and why I became a coach. I share my top tips on making the right first impression on your new line manager or on a new senior stakeholder. I talk about how to hold your own and build your influence with the key stakeholders in your organization, and share some of my top tips for being confident around senior people. So this is all about helping you to become a more influential leader. My name's Carla Miller, leadership coach, author, and trainer.

Carla Miller [00:00:58]:
And this is the influence and impact podcast for women leaders, helping you confidently navigate the ups and downs of leadership and feel less alone on your journey as a leader. In fortnightly episodes, I share practical tools and insights from myself and my brilliant guests that will help you to succeed in your career. Now if you haven't already downloaded my free resource, the how to say no challenge, then do head over to my website to find that. You'll find the link in the show notes. You'll also find details of my upcoming open programs. So we have the next influence and impact program for women leaders is coming up next spring. And I have brought back my 4 week be bolder confidence and assertiveness course for women at any level that's coming back and running in February March. So head over to carlamiller.co.uk to find out more details of those.

Carla Miller [00:01:54]:
I have been busy working in house with organizations, which is something I'm doing more and more now alongside these online podcasts. So I am busy working on lots of slide decks at the moment, which isn't quite as much fun as actually delivering the workshops. But it's really nice to be invited into an organization to work with a group of managers or leaders, sometimes a group of women to help them to develop and grow. So if you have not already mentioned my name to your people or l and d department, then please do so. My business grows entirely on word-of-mouth. It's just little old me most of the time, no massive marketing budget. And so please go out and be ambassadors. That would be amazing.

Carla Miller [00:02:44]:
Okay. So let's hear this episode where I share my best tips on how you can become a more influential leader.

Lucy Gernon [00:02:57]:
Hi, Carla. How are you? You're so welcome to the show today.

Carla Miller [00:03:00]:
I am great. Thank you, Lucy. It's sunny in Cumbria, which is a rare occurrence, so it's put me in a really good mood for this conversation.

Lucy Gernon [00:03:08]:
Fabulous. Fabulous. It's actually sunny here in Ireland as well, which is a total exactly the same. It never shines. It's been so miserable. But listen, I've been so looking forward to speaking with you because about 3 years ago, I think, when I started my business, one of my clients said to me, have you heard about Carla Miller's podcast? And at the time, I think I had just launched my own, and she had been listening to yours. So I started following you, and we do a lot of the same things, which is why I always absolutely love talking to other coaches as well because we're on the same kind of mission. So I know my audience are gonna absolutely love you here today.

Lucy Gernon [00:03:43]:
So do you wanna just introduce yourself to our listeners? Let us know a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Carla Miller [00:03:49]:
Absolutely. So my mission is to empower women leaders within the workplace and make leading less lonely. And that really comes from my own background. I was a director at 29. I used to work in the charity sector as a fundraising director. And I was managing large teams, lots of expenditure budget, lots of income budget, and spent my day in boardrooms with men in their 50s 60s, or in meetings with my direct reports who were all a lot older than me. And I was just consistently underestimated, and would find it really hard to get my voice heard in those rooms. And as a result, it created quite a lot of self doubt for me, imposter feelings, even though I could see I was getting these fantastic results.

Carla Miller [00:04:33]:
Because I think when your input isn't valued, when you're being interrupted a lot, you start to eventually believe that what you have to say isn't valuable. And at the time, I felt really alone in those influencing challenges and those feelings of not being good enough. But, of course, now, like you, I've worked with thousands of women as a coach and trainer. And I know that I totally wasn't alone in those feelings. And that's one of the reasons I love bringing women together in groups to share experiences. Because they'll quite often say after one session, they feel less alone. And they understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. And so that's what I love doing, helping women come together, share those experiences, understand the role that gender bias has on how they feel about themselves and how it's impacted their confidence.

Carla Miller [00:05:22]:
And then give them the skills to rebuild that confidence, to get their voices heard, and to just undo that damage that has been done. So, I basically run a couple of training programs. I have my podcast. Obviously, influence and impact for female leaders. I run a training program called influence and impact, which is about self doubt, influence, and increasing your impact. And then I run the women leading community, which is offering support and coaching and development to help women lead without overwhelm. So, basically, I get to live my dream like you. I get to live my dream work every day and work with amazing women, and I feel very, very grateful for that.

Lucy Gernon [00:06:00]:
Oh, fantastic. I mean, I just absolutely love everything that you were you were all about. And I'm really curious when you were saying about you were director at 29 and you were in those rooms with, you know, regardless of age, even I would hear that a lot too. A lot of our listeners would be working in male dominated leadership teams. So how did you navigate that?

Carla Miller [00:06:20]:
I think for me, a lot of it was about learning to be much more confident and to really develop my influencing skills. No one ever told me I needed to learn how to influence. No one ever told me how to do it. But I quickly realized, oh, hang on. If I wanna get my voice heard here, I need to do things differently. So I spent a lot of time learning about influencing. But one of my favorite tricks for anyone going into those situations is to think about what I call your personal leadership brand. So being intentional about the impression that you want to make on people in the room.

Carla Miller [00:06:53]:
Because if you don't, you can go in and maybe you've presented a report, you're getting some challenging questions, and you start to feel a bit defensive, start reacting rather than responding. I know I used to do that all the time. But now, I think beforehand, well, how do I want them to describe me when I leave the room? What qualities do I really want to bring? So I might decide I want to be seen as expert, as strategic, as a leader. And that then sets this subconscious filter that when I go to communicate, I think, well, am I coming across as an expert, strategic, a leader? And it helps me to show up more in that way. So you can do it with 3 words, or to keep it really simple, you could just do it with one word and go into that meeting and think, how do I want to be perceived? And it just changes how you show up. I had a client who, she worked in consulting. And she had a really challenging client who would just override her all the time and never really listened to what she was saying. And she said, I just want her to recognize me as the expert I am.

Carla Miller [00:07:55]:
So I said to her, right. This is the word you focus on. When you go into that meeting, you are the expert. Remind yourself of that. Own that. And she called me after the meeting and said, at two points, she actually said, you are the expert. I'll defer to you on that. It was like working with a completely different person.

Carla Miller [00:08:10]:
And it was just because she'd shown up in a different way. So, that's one of the things that you can do before those more intimidating meetings or the ones with those really senior stakeholders is to think, right, what brand do I want to bring here? What impression do I want to make on people? So

Lucy Gernon [00:08:28]:
good. That is such a useful tip. And when you were saying that, I was thinking back to, oh my god. So embarrassing. When I worked in the corporate world because of my insecurities, and I shared this publicly, I was the one who, like, spoke a lot. So I was the one in the meeting who would have been speaking a lot even if it wasn't adding value. And in hindsight, looking back, I absolutely cringe. I cringe because it was definitely when I started doing personal branding work on my own business and then subsequently with my own clients, I realized exactly what you just said.

Lucy Gernon [00:09:01]:
Like, when you map out exactly how you want to be perceived and then you actually audit yourself and you kinda go, oh, wait a minute. That is absolutely not how I wanna be perceived. So I think that trick is so powerful. Like, just that little mindset shift of, like, stepping into who you wanna be how you wanna be perceived. So thank you for that. And tell me then as well, like, when it comes to so I know we're gonna talk about how to build a strong relationship and how to influence your new boss. But even before we even get into that, I'd love to know, like, you're the queen of influence. What tips do you have for influencing sideways? So I would hear a lot from my clients and our 3 six leaders club members as well.

Lucy Gernon [00:09:44]:
Peers, you know, getting your peers on board when everyone has their own agendas.

Carla Miller [00:09:49]:
It's a really tricky one, isn't it? I developed a 6 step model for doing this, and I actually had developed it myself because I used to find influencing peers so frustrating.

Lucy Gernon [00:09:58]:
In

Carla Miller [00:09:59]:
fact, I used to go around them whenever I could because I often had better relationships with the people above me when someone was being really difficult. But I developed the 6 step model, shared it with clients, works really well, and then discovered that there's a very academically proven 9 step version. So I'm like, okay, then stick to 6 steps, but it's good because it keeps the essence of something academically proven. So for me, I think when we think about influencing sideways, we often think it's about persuading people to see things the way we see them. Like, often, we get entrenched in situations where we think we're right and they're wrong. And I encourage people to think about influence completely differently. It's more about building a relationship where you can problem solve together. So I do like to think of it more as win win rather than a zero sum game.

Carla Miller [00:10:47]:
So the 6 steps are essentially step 1 is to build your relationship with someone. Because if they like you, they're more likely to pick up the phone, answer your email, go in a room with you, give you the benefit of the doubt when they think that you've done something wrong or that you're not right. So start by building that relationship. You don't have to be their new best friend, but, I have gone into organizations and deliberately identified those key stakeholders in other teams that I'm gonna be working with closely and taken them out for lunch or taken them for a coffee and got to know them to be really proactive about that. So step 1 really built you up for step 2, which is to understand them. Because if you can't put yourself in someone's shoes, you're gonna find it really hard to influence them. Because you're not speaking their language, you don't know what's important to them. So think about what keeps them up at night? Who are their stakeholders? What are they being measured on? What are their priorities? Because that's what's going to be influencing their decisions and how they're showing up in meetings with you.

Carla Miller [00:11:54]:
What's going on for them outside of work? There's all sorts of things that you can think through. And sometimes you can ask them. Sometimes you can basically say, so what's going on for you at the moment? And they will give you that information. That enables you to do step 3, which is about understanding what they want from the situation. So what do they need to leave the room with? And that's actually a really good question to ask. For this meeting to be a success for you, what do you need to leave with? Because then you can understand what's important, what might be a deal breaker for them. So that's step 3. Step 4 is to know what you want.

Carla Miller [00:12:29]:
So, particularly, if you're a reflective thinker, if you like to think things through, being put on a spot in the meeting and having to decide what's really important from what you've proposed, for example, is very, very hard to do. But if you think beforehand, let's say, you're putting forward a proposal, you can look and think, okay, well, these are the things I really need, and these are the things I can let go of. And I'm not suggesting you go in and share that straight away, but you have that in your head. So that it's obvious that if something is a deal breaker for someone, you know, well, can I budge on that? Or actually, is that also a deal maker for me? And then step 5, which I don't think happens in many organizations, is I like to start the conversation by acknowledging their perspective and sharing mine. So let's say you're talking to someone in finance, and it's April, and the auditors are in. And they're really, really busy, but you need some information from them. I would start by acknowledging, okay, I know you've got the auditors in at the moment. That must be really intense for you.

Carla Miller [00:13:29]:
I'm sure time is short. I wouldn't be asking for this meeting if I didn't really need it for this client deadline. People aren't used to that. They're used to everyone coming in with their own agenda, presenting their agenda, and then preparing to kind of fight about it. And they find it really, really refreshing because they're like, so this person actually values what I'm going to get from this as well. They value my perspective. And then step 6, which is optional, is to I like to then propose a starting point for discussion that I think will meet both of our needs. So rather than going, here's what I want.

Carla Miller [00:14:04]:
Here's my proposal. Here's what I think. I will say, okay. So I've heard that this is what's going on for you. This is what's going on for me. How about we start here and see what we can come up with? So you change that dynamic from you versus them to problem solving together. Now I say step 6 is optional because if you're dealing with someone who you know never negotiates on anything, I probably wouldn't start there because you're just gonna end up in a weaker spot. But generally, most people, it really just changes the energy between you.

Carla Miller [00:14:35]:
And it's get you 2 together against whatever problem that is. Even if the problem is our teams aren't working effectively together. Works really, really well.

Lucy Gernon [00:14:44]:
Absolutely love that. So powerful. Love a good framework, Carla. So I'd love to ask you then. Right? Like, you're absolutely right. Like, we are not taught this in school, first of all. So how the hell would we ever know how to do this? It's that it's that kind of coaching approach, isn't it that you and I would know very well. But I know like I've I've you know gone through some similar situations with my clients.

Lucy Gernon [00:15:07]:
I was speaking to, Selena Rezvani was on my podcast, and she came up with the the phrase I use all the time using their understanding their GPS. So their goals, their passions, and their struggles, and, like, getting inside their head exactly like you said. But what I find sometimes is there's because it's different to the culture, there's sometimes resistance to asking that question that you said, which is like, what's going on for you? So what mindset shift do people need to make, first of all, to have the courage to actually ask the questions to their peer or to their their superior?

Carla Miller [00:15:40]:
I think if you really can't ask it, then you can have built your relationship well enough that you can think for yourself. Right. I'm gonna put myself in my shoes and think what's going on. You also might be able to ask other people. But I think you're not asking them anything terrifying. What's the worst they can do? The worst that they can do is say, oh, actually, let's just get on with business. And some people will be like that. Some people will be like, you know what? I've got so much on.

Carla Miller [00:16:03]:
I don't have time to talk about it. Let's get on with it. In which case, you could take the lead from them and go, yeah, that's absolutely fine. But, I think it's less about the courage to do it and more about thinking this is not an unusual thing to do. I'm not asking them a huge favor. I'm trying to understand them better. And you can couch it like that. I'd like to understand better.

Carla Miller [00:16:24]:
As long as you're not asking them to spend loads of time debriefing their whole life to you. Most people don't mind being asked that in reality.

Lucy Gernon [00:16:31]:
Most people love it. Most people love talking about themselves. Right? They really, really do.

Carla Miller [00:16:37]:
Absolutely.

Lucy Gernon [00:16:38]:
I'm just thinking the reason I asked you that question is I had a client this week who was, has been had been sought out for a role of a CEO in a particular company. Mhmm. And one of the people in the board was in a different country, and she didn't really have a relationship with this person. So I was like, well, that's obviously the first step. You've got to build a relationship. And she was terrified to reach out for a coffee date because she had all these limiting beliefs about she's gonna think this and, like, who am I to reach out to this particular board member? But in the end, she did, and the result was that she got the interview. Right? So I just I wanna share that story because I think sometimes fear can get in the way. And when we look at senior people, sometimes we think, oh, they're god or, like, they're kinda more above us.

Lucy Gernon [00:17:23]:
So, like, what do you think in terms of that? Because that's in my experience. I would see that a lot.

Carla Miller [00:17:29]:
Yeah. Definitely. I think, it's funny because I've been a very senior person. So I know that we're all very, very human, but people forget that, don't they? They think, oh, there's chief exec. They don't have issues. But when you coach chief exec, you're like, oh, they also have imposter feelings. I like to think of what men do in this situation. So as women, we tend to believe in a meritocracy.

Carla Miller [00:17:48]:
So we tend to think if we work hard, keep our head down, just do what's expected of us, then we should be rewarded and valued for that. Men tend to see it more as a game. And part of that game is making sure everyone knows who you are. They know what you're good at. They know what you've done. They know what you want to do next, and they know how much you want to be paid. And so if you think that that's what men are out there doing, we don't have to be exactly like them. But just recognizing that that is the absolute opposite end of the scale to what we're doing at the moment.

Carla Miller [00:18:17]:
We could move more in that direction because they're playing the game. And particularly when you're interviewing with men, they are used to that game being played. And in fact, they see it as a sign a positive sign of ambition. So I think it's actually a really positive thing to do that your own way. And I love that idea of reaching out for a coffee. And certainly, if I was a chief exec and someone was applying for a senior role, or if I was on the board and someone was applying for the chief exec, I would want someone proactive who would reach out for a coffee. So, yeah, for me it really helps to go, oh, it's not like I'm acting like a man, but I am so far at the other end of the spectrum that there's probably some things I could learn about learning to play the game.

Lucy Gernon [00:18:57]:
So what would you say to women who so, again, you've heard it a 1000 times, so have I. I don't want to play the game. I hate corporate politics. What do you say to that?

Carla Miller [00:19:06]:
I think it's about playing the game your way because to some extent, everything is a game. So if you think about an interview, that's really a game of showing that you can jump through their hoops, that you know enough about it to be able to do that. And then once they offer you the job, then the power is all back in your court, and then you get to set the rules yourself. So I used to think of it as internal politics, now I think of it as influencing. And for me, it's about building really good relationships with the people that make the difference between me being able to do my job well and me and my team not being able to perform well. It's part of your job to influence internally. The more senior you get or the larger an organization you work in, the more it is part of your job. And if you think of it as internal politics, yeah, that sounds horrible.

Carla Miller [00:19:54]:
No interest in that whatsoever. But if you think of it as influence and navigating internally to get things done, it's really useful. And I think what we see in the more strategic leaders is they are investing some of their time in building those strategic relationships, Not necessarily for themselves, for their team. And that's how I do it. I am ambitious for my team. I've never been, like, hugely ambitious myself. But it was about, well, if I don't have a relationship with the director of finance, my team are not going to be able to deliver what they need to deliver. So I need to go and have that conversation.

Carla Miller [00:20:28]:
And that kind of leads me to another tool actually, which is the idea of the cloak of authority. So when I had to have conversations that Carla, the person, did not want to have, so I hate conflict, tension. I hate asking for stuff as well, and I hate asking for help, all of these different things. But I recognize as a director, doing my job well involved having those conversations. And so I would think of my job title or like a cloak of authority at the time, and I'm totally aging myself here. Harry Potter films were on at the cinema. And in the first one, I just rewatched it with my 7 year old or 6 year old. He has a cloak of invisibility, and I was like, I need a magic cloak of my own to make me feel capable of having these conversations that I just don't want to have.

Carla Miller [00:21:12]:
And so before I went into the challenging conversations, I would imagine pulling on my cloak of authority, reminding myself, Carla, the director, needs to have these conversations and needs to have them in a really confident, clear way. Now you can do what you want with your cloak. It could be another item of clothing. I've got clients who actually it's like bright red lipstick. I've got a male client. He's got lucky pants that he wears. It could be anything at all. But I think it's something that gives you a sense of agency, something that reminds you, I can do this.

Carla Miller [00:21:43]:
It's my job to do this. This isn't about me as a person at all. This is about me doing my job. Wow.

Lucy Gernon [00:21:50]:
I love that cloak of authority. If anyone is everyone is gonna be going around now, Carla, with their clothes going into work. That is so powerful though because for me, definitely, if you see me stepping out to a stage or something, I'll always wear a blazer. It's like, I don't know what it is about me. I've always loved them. But as soon as I put on my blazer, I'm in work mode. Yeah. I wear them downtown to have a dinner and stuff sometimes too, but I think it's about finding what works for you.

Lucy Gernon [00:22:16]:
But definitely, I think that is such a powerful tip. Absolutely love that tip. So I'd love to know then to talk a little bit about building relationships with your boss. So talk to me if you have a new boss in particular, and you've just started a new role, or maybe a new CEO has come in, or you've got a new leader. Tell me, where do we start?

Carla Miller [00:22:38]:
So the first place I would start with is, what I talked about earlier, that personal leadership brand. I would be thinking, how do I want this person to perceive me? You've got this fresh start for whatever reason, whether you're new or they're new. You can be intentional about how they perceive you. So really think about that, and think about it in the context of what in order to do my job well, how do I need to be perceived? If I want to progress, or if I want to be taken really seriously, how do I want to be perceived? So go through that exercise again, think about 3 ways that you want to be perceived, and then think about, right, what do I need to dial up, and what do I need to make sure I'm articulating to that person so that they start to see me like that. Because they will come in with their own experiences and ideas, and will be looking and filtering, and I think if you're really clear about how you want to be seen, that helps. So that's step 1. Step 2 is really approaching that first meeting with them well. So your first one to 1 once they are your line manager.

Carla Miller [00:23:37]:
I would be approaching that like a partner. So I really love this idea of partnering with your line manager, and it comes from Cohen and Bradford who wrote influencing upwards and influencing without authority. And the idea is that most of us in our line manager relationships are slightly obsessed with what people can do for us, like how can they get us what we need. And actually, what we want to do is see ourselves as partners with our line manager and see part of our role as helping them achieve their goals. Now it's totally obvious, isn't it? But how many of us actually do that? So I would ask some key questions. Things like, what are your priorities for the role and how can I support you with those? What sort of team culture are you looking to create? And how would you like your leaders to operate within that? Because those already say, I wanna know what's important to you. I wanna help you make the changes you want to make around here. I'd also ask about their communication preferences.

Carla Miller [00:24:40]:
So in terms of my area of work, what do you want to be kept updated on and how often? How do you like to make decisions? So do you like time to reflect on decisions, or would you rather talk them through verbally? Because people make decisions in very different ways, and understanding what kind of decision maker your boss is will really help you. If you try and push a reflective thinker to make a decision on something in a short period of time, you're much more likely to get a no than a yes because they won't want to say yes to something and then reverse. It's much easier to come back and say, oh, I said no, but actually I've changed my mind. I want to say yes. So how do you like to make your decisions? How do you want to keep be kept updated? How do you want to be communicated with? So do you want emails? Do you want a report? Do you like to just talk things through informally? What's your preference? Because we never have those conversations, and then we spend all this really clunky time working it out and feeling like we've not got the best relationship when we could just start it from the beginning. Mean, I think we could probably do this for romantic relationships as well, and they might work a bit better. But we're talking about the chief executive. And then I would also say, tell them how they can get the best out of you, and the support that you would welcome from them.

Carla Miller [00:25:55]:
And if you're in a change situation, then you can ask them, well, how do you plan to make you know, is your remit for change here? How do you plan to approach those changes? So that you know, are you dealing with someone that's gonna come in and, like, restructure straight away, or are you dealing with someone who's just gonna sit and watch and actually not throwing much of themselves in for the 1st 6 months and decide from there? CEOs have very different approaches, and knowing upfront so that you're working with that, and you can tell your team how it's gonna work, is really helpful. So pick some of those questions. I wouldn't grill them, and list all of those questions. Pick which are most relevant to you. But I think all of those questions position you as someone thoughtful thoughtful who wants to succeed and achieve, and who cares about what your new line manager is trying to achieve as well.

Lucy Gernon [00:26:44]:
So powerful. Girls, you're gonna have to take down some of those questions because, like, honestly, they were so so good. So what do you do then if, for example, obviously, in any new team, you're gonna go through those, you know, that Tuckman model of team formation where you're gonna have that storming phase. Right? And it's gonna happen. What do you say to people who are in that, like, storming phase with their boss where both responsibilities are not clear? They're still figuring out, you know, leadership styles and communication styles. It can be really, really challenging. What's your advice?

Carla Miller [00:27:16]:
I always think when things are tough, it's much better to have a conversation about something than to dwell on it or get resentful. So I would if you haven't had this conversation upfront, I would have that conversation with them. And I would be saying, okay. So it doesn't feel like I've quite got that element of communication right or the team really, receive this particular approach well. However you want to do it, I always think where you've got an area of tension, you want to open up the conversation. Now obviously, if someone's more senior than you, you've got to respect the hierarchy and their authority, but you can provide feedback. And you can also say, look, this is how I feel it's going. How do you feel it's going? In fact, I'd do it the other way around.

Carla Miller [00:27:59]:
How do you feel it's going?

Lucy Gernon [00:28:00]:
I was just gonna say that I remember my coach trainer saying that to me that and I think it's so powerful is, if you are feeling it, they're feeling it as well. So I think your advice about actually having the conversation and the reason I interrupted you there is because I want people to understand that it's like, if you are feeling all of this, they're absolutely feeling it. And by you not addressing the situation, it's most likely gonna get worse.

Carla Miller [00:28:25]:
Definitely. So I think you can ask them, like, how do you feel it's going? And this is how I feel it's going. Or what do you think I'm doing well? What are my areas for development? Or even just as simple as how can we work better together? I'm really enjoying working with you. It feels like there are some crunchy areas or some things we still need to work through together. How do you think we can work better together? And then try and make sure you also get a chance to add in what you have to say. That will obviously depend on the leadership style of the person that you're

Lucy Gernon [00:28:54]:
talking to. Now what if someone is afraid of their new boss?

Carla Miller [00:28:57]:
And they don't

Lucy Gernon [00:28:58]:
have the you know, it's very easy for us to say, you know, go and have the conversation. But we know we've all been there with bosses where we see this big, authoritative figure who sometimes may not be, shouldn't be in a leadership role, and they're trying to navigate that. Would you recommend the same approach or something different?

Carla Miller [00:29:14]:
I think that's where the cloak of authority can come in really helpful in terms of reminding yourself it's part of my role to have this conversation. Sometimes it's part of my role to challenge upwards. You've got to judge it well, so you've got to watch and learn. So I always encourage you to be, when it comes to senior stakeholders, a bit of a spy or a researcher. I was doing some work with the House of Commons, and I said a bit of a spy, and everyone kind of breathed in. I was like, a researcher. A bit of a researcher. But you can watch and learn from them.

Carla Miller [00:29:46]:
So you can look and think, how do they communicate? What are their preferences? What language are they using? Is this someone you know, if you think about personality profiling tools, and there's loads of them, but is this someone who is very direct and to the point? And actually, it does feel a bit scary, but I just need to be really concise in how I'm talking to them. Or is this a people person where actually I want a bit more time to to talk things through into it, to relax? So I think the first thing is recognizing they're also human, like we talked about earlier. I promise you, chief execs are fully human. They also may experience some self doubt. They're just not going to show it to you. They're gonna want you to recognize their authority, but that doesn't mean that they can't have a decent conversation with you. So, another thing you can do to build your confidence beforehand is power posing. So people have probably come across this, but might not have used it in this context.

Carla Miller [00:30:40]:
So the idea is, and it's from research by doctor Amy Cuddy, hold a powerful pose for 2 minutes, and you will feel more powerful and act more powerfully for the rest of the day. So I have clients that when they get called into a meeting with the chief exec, we'll check that they've got everything in order first, and then we'll go to the bathrooms and we'll power pose for 2 minutes. So that they're telling their nervous system, I'm safe. It's okay. I can do this. So I love a power pose or a power song. So I love anything by Lizzo at the moment. That's what I listen to.

Carla Miller [00:31:13]:
I do a power song before I come on something like this, actually, because I get nervous. But I want to come I want to be at my best confident and relaxed self. So I will do a little dance to a power song. So if you're working from home, that's a possibility, less so in the office probably.

Lucy Gernon [00:31:31]:
Bring the team along.

Carla Miller [00:31:33]:
Absolutely. And then another thing you can do to, calm down your nervous system, because in a way, it is about the confidence to do things, but sometimes you just have to like, you can't get out of the meeting with your chief exec, can you? You still gotta go into that meeting however confident you do or don't feel. And and I think confidence work is a is a longer term process looking at the beliefs that you have around yourself. But another way to calm your nervous system is just to put your feet flat on the floor. So if you do it now, or anyone listening does it now, if you stop uncrossing your legs if you're like me, put both feet flat on the floor, you can close your eyes for a moment, and just for the next 10 seconds, just notice the sensation of your feet flat on the floor. We'll just do it for 5 for the sake of the podcast. And then imagine that you're like a tree, and you've got these deep roots coming out from the bottom of your feet and going down deep and wide into the earth, really grounding you. I'm going to sleep.

Carla Miller [00:32:31]:
So So relaxing. So what that's done is that has literally grounded you. It sent your nervous system a message to say you're safe, calm down. And your nervous system then sends that message up to your brain, which stops some of that panicking, whirring that often happens before we go into a scary meeting. Also, it makes us more solid. So if I had come along and pushed you in your chair earlier, Lucy, I don't know why I would do that, but if I did, you would have gone flying. But if I came along and pushed you now, actually, you probably wouldn't move that much. You're more solid in terms of your body language as well, and more solid in yourself, which is a really nice way to go into meetings.

Carla Miller [00:33:10]:
And you can do that when no one's looking. So you don't necessarily have to do the deep roots thing. That's just to give you a sense of that sensation. But in a meeting, when you're feeling those nerves come up, just notice the feeling of the sensations you're feeling in the soles of your feet touching the ground, and think about grounding yourself, and you will feel much calmer and much more confident because you've slapped your nervous system out of that adrenaline, cortisol, flight, fright, or I could never say those correctly. Fight, flight, or freeze?

Lucy Gernon [00:33:42]:
Freeze. And faint is in there now as well, isn't it? Some CEOs might make some of them faint. I love that advice. And you know what? I love that you're saying all this stuff about, because I talk about power poses and stuff as well. I think sometimes my audience think I'm going mad, but, like, I would be exactly the same. I listen to doctor Dre before I do a webinar or I'll, you know, jump up and down. It's about, like, raising your vibrational frequency so that you can actually, you know, attract all of the good things instead of down here at a low vibration where you're stressed and anxious, and you're literally gonna attract all the crap at the meeting, which you definitely don't want. Such good tips.

Lucy Gernon [00:34:20]:
I can't wait to go back and dissect this episode. So just before we finish up, Carla, I could talk to you about so many topics. You're gonna have to come back on the show again soon for sure. But let's just pivot a little bit towards, you know, entrepreneurship because it's something I haven't really talked a lot about on the podcast, really, but I know you and I have kind of made the move. Like, what for you has been you know, you mentioned earlier about having time with your family and, like, living your, you know, something like living your your dream, doing what you love. Like, what do you love most about being a coach and a trainer?

Carla Miller [00:34:55]:
I think it's a combination of 2. Actually, it's 3 things. The first is I get to help people. I get to make a difference. I get to make an impact. And sometimes that's on a one to one scale, and sometimes that's working with whole groups. And for me, that's a really big driver. Always has been.

Carla Miller [00:35:11]:
It was why I wanted to work in the charity sector in the first place. And why I've moved into this. So that's one. The second is my life is less stressful. So I recently looked at a chief exec role. And I was quite tempted by it. I was like, I actually have no real external stresses in my life. No one can stress me out.

Carla Miller [00:35:28]:
I have a lot of pressure that I put on myself, but actually, when I talk to my clients and the challenges they're facing, I'm like, It took me a long time to build it to this point, but I've got it quite easy. And the third is the flexibility. So I'm a solo mom by choice to a 6 year old who also has type 1 diabetes, and that is time consuming. And, being there for him and keeping in control of life, the flexibility is is really helpful, particularly because I work a lot virtually. So I can go and pick him up from school. I can drop him off every day. I can deal with the school on all the issues to do with diabetes. So, for me, it's perfect.

Carla Miller [00:36:06]:
I don't think it's the right move necessarily for everyone. And I loved leading, and I miss leading a team. But for me, where I am in my life right now, it works perfectly.

Lucy Gernon [00:36:15]:
Yeah. Amazing. So if anyone is thinking about making the leap like it is absolutely possible, I'm I'm the same. Like, the flexibility, being there around for the family, doing what you love, accountable load to a lot of clients instead of one boss. That's the only thing, but nobody calling the shots, which is which is still yeah. I hear you on that one. So I wanted to ask you as well, and I'll stop grilling you. I feel like I'm grilling you with questions today.

Lucy Gernon [00:36:39]:
But you you're very successful. You've been very successful in your leadership career, and you've now built a really successful business. That's making a huge impact in the world. What would you say is your top success habits?

Carla Miller [00:36:55]:
I think it's this idea of radical responsibility, And I didn't have a name for it when I was doing it years ago, but one of the things that made me very successful in the workplace was I could never just sit and complain about a problem. I always had to look at, well, how can I play a role in making it better? So we weren't getting what we needed from the finance team. I would gather the information and go and talk to the finance team. We wanted to pitch for a £5,000,000 partnership, and we didn't have an organizational strategy. I went to the chief exec and said, look, we really do need to visit the strategy. Can I play a role in doing this? I wasn't doing any of that to get promoted. I was doing it in order to solve the problems that were getting in my way. And I think that being a problem solver, I think when you're a leader, you don't really get to sit in that place very long of thinking it's rubbish and this is frustrating because what you have is the ability to change things.

Carla Miller [00:37:52]:
And that's the the leaders, the ones that are superstars, when I used to interview people, I was a recruitment consultant and ran a recruitment company for a couple of years as well. The people that stood out were those that had this radical responsibility. They'd taken on extra not even extra work, but they'd had the initiative. Sometimes it's about getting someone else to do it, but it's about seeing problems and solving them. So I think for me, that's what got me promoted then. I think what's helped me to be I don't know. I still don't think of myself as successful enough in the in the world of coaching. But I guess when you look at the, you know, the the bench bars maybe are doing okay.

Carla Miller [00:38:29]:
But for that, I think it's 2 things. It's about being myself. So when I first started coaching and training, I tried to be like corporate enough. And my website was blue and corporate, and I just tried to do it like everybody else. And then when I started sharing on LinkedIn, the struggles of parenting and working or some of the things I'd done wrong, as well as some of the things I learned, suddenly people wanted to work with me. They no longer were going, oh, I'm talking to 3 leadership coaches. They were like, I really resonated with what you said. And I realized so much confidence in doing well is about, actually, I don't need to be like anyone else.

Carla Miller [00:39:08]:
And I'd sort of realized it in the corporate world and hadn't realized it in my new world. Actually, I just need to be me and really authentically me, and show that you do not have to be perfect or have everything sorted to be really flipping good at whatever it is you do, whether you're in the workplace or whether you're running your own business. So I think that and being driven by wanting to make a difference. So would I make like to make loads of money? I would. But it's really not a big driver for me at all. It doesn't really feature on my goals. For me, it's about how do I increase my impact and how do I make the most difference. That's my main driver, and I think that really helps.

Lucy Gernon [00:39:46]:
I'm amazed, and I love that. And I think it is, you know, you're so right about the personal you know, from a personal brand perspective. People buy from people. People buy ideas from people. You know, people buy services from people. And I think I was exactly the same except I came out I was like a rebel coming out of corporate world. I built my website. It was, like, full of pink.

Lucy Gernon [00:40:04]:
I was in a pink suit because I was like, I'm not gonna be corporate anymore, and I've kind of toned it back a little bit. My rebellious stage is over. But I think what you said, though, around not being perfect and sharing your vulnerability too is something that all leaders can learn from for sure. So final question 2 final two questions. What does success, balance, and happiness mean to you?

Carla Miller [00:40:28]:
I think doing good work well and being there for the people that I love.

Lucy Gernon [00:40:34]:
Love it. And what's one piece of advice that you want our listeners to take away today?

Carla Miller [00:40:40]:
I think it's that be yourself. Like, you do not need to be a different person in order to be good at your job. And I think a lot of imposter feelings come from comparison, looking at others and going, that's what a senior leader should look like. And it's like, there is no one right way to be a senior leader. Don't be a crappy version of someone else. Be the best version of yourself.

Lucy Gernon [00:41:02]:
Fabulous. Carla, thank you so much for being an unbelievable guest. I can't wait to go back and dissect the show. Where can our listeners find you?

Carla Miller [00:41:11]:
So come and find me on LinkedIn, or I would love you, since you are podcast listeners, to give my podcast a try. And Lucy will be coming on the show very soon. So it's called Influence and Impact for Female Leaders. We do fortnightly episodes, guests, and practical ideas and strategies as well on all the sorts of things that we've talked about here. And thank you so much for having me, Lucy. I really appreciate it.

Lucy Gernon [00:41:33]:
Of course. And, guys, we will link Carla's on her website and her podcast and everything in the show notes, so there's no excuse to go over and give it a listen for sure. Carla, thank you again for being here. I'll talk to you again soon. Thanks.