Carla Miller 00:00
Welcome to the influence and impact podcast for female leaders. My name is Carla Miller, and I'm a leadership coach who helps female leaders to tackle self-doubt become brilliant influencing and make more impact at work.

I've created this podcast to help you to become a more inspiring and impactful leader. And I want to become the leadership BFF that you didn't know you were missing until now. I spend a lot of time coaching women around confidence, giving them the tools to build their confidence, and shining a light on the role that gender bias plays in making us doubt ourselves at work. But confidence issues often start a long time before women enter the workplace. And the pressure that girls face today due to social media is absolutely huge.

In this episode, I interview Laura Sercombe, the inspiring Chief Exec of GFS Girls Friendly Society, a charity that works with girls to inspire and empower them to live their best lives. Now this year, my business has been making a donation to fund a girl to attend one of GFS is confidence building sessions for every participant in our open Be Bolder courses. So it was great to explore this topic with Laura, we talked about why there's a need for the work that GFS does. What is it that's causing girls as young as six to struggle with their confidence, we talk about the importance of positive role models and also of safe spaces where girls can be themselves.

GFS is an amazing charity. And when I think back to myself as a young girl, I think I have an absolutely crippling lack of confidence alongside being extremely shy. And I think I was lucky that as I progressed in secondary school, I found the academic side of things came more easily to me. And that built my confidence a bit. But before then I would describe myself as completely lost in terms of confidence and knowing who I was. And the idea of liking myself as opposed to comparing myself to all the people around me and thinking I should be more like them, was completely alien to me. I'm really proud of how far I've come as a person, I'm sure that many of you listening can think of moments in the past were the moments when you were children, when you didn't feel confident, and hopefully you too can be proud of the journey that you've come on. And I think it's fantastic that there's resources, like mine available to help women to overcome confidence issues. But wouldn't it be fantastic if we could help address these issues earlier on in children's lives.

I really love this interview with Laura. She's a really inspiring person, she shares about her own background, and her own challenges with confidence and the difference that it made having someone believe in her. So please do check out their website and think about donating an hour of your pay to GFS to help make a difference to young girls in disadvantaged areas. I hope you enjoy the episode. And do let me know what you think. So I'm delighted to welcome Laura to the podcast. Welcome, Laura. How you doing?

Laura Sercombe 03:48
I'm doing fine. I've got a little bit of impostor syndrome going on here talking to you, but I'm good.

Carla Miller 03:57
While you're Chief Exec of a charity doing amazing stuff, so no imposter syndrome needed we're going to find out all about it. So let's start there. Let's find out a little bit more about what is GFS? How do you help girls?

Laura Sercombe 04:12
GFS is an amazing charity. It's been around now for almost 150 years. So we're approaching a big birthday. And our founder was an incredible woman called Mary Townsend. She worked with a cohort of young women who were really isolated and considered vulnerable. Because of the lives they lead. They were in service for the first time in big towns and cities and a really long way away from home. And since then, GFS has morphed and changed but brilliantly responded to the need to support girls and young women where the need was most significant. So things like women in wartime working women, you know, when women started working for the first time and how that worked for them, and women who found themselves girls and young women who are fans I was pregnant and thrown out by their families as things as the way things used to be. And now, obviously, times have changed. And we as an organisation have changed. And girls as young as six are telling us that they can't be themselves and they can't be proud of who they are. And that makes life really difficult for them, including things like making friends, has really serious implications for their lives, and actually, for society. So what we're doing is we're working with these girls who are isolated by that they're lonely. And we work in areas of deprivation, the place where places where girls apparently have the toughest times, and we are working to make sure that they become the women of the future that can really make society a stronger place.

Carla Miller 05:55
Fantastic. And we're going to dive into that a little bit more but first, I'd love to hear more about you. How long have you worked there? And what was your journey to get to this role?

Laura Sercombe 06:07
I have worked there for three and a half years, it's been a really busy three and a half years because it was new for me, obviously, but also during I joined just before COVID launch. So tough times. And I come from a really humble background. My parents were very young adults, teenagers, and we lived in my grandmother's social housing in North London, until they got themselves in a position where they had their own social housing and eventually, they bought themselves their first house and we moved out of London to Stevenage, new town, everyone believed in Stevenage New Town, where they were able to buy themselves, their first home.

I remember my dad saying to me, as put me up, that cost us 5000 pounds on it is a is a noose around my neck, you know, he found responsibility of owning a home really difficult, but my mum was so proud and so excited by the new life, she could offer her three daughters, and the eldest of three, and because my parents were, they were so young, and I was really encouraged to take responsibility and help out. We had extended family living with us, it's a really busy house. And I was really, really shy and, and lacked in confidence. So so much and this does remain, you notice I said earlier, I do suffer from imposter syndrome, despite the fact that having worked in the third sector for a very long time, having had some incredible jobs, including two CEO roles.

I doubt myself and I and I question myself, am I the person that can really do this, you know, you're in it. It comes from a background where we were always a bit left out, I suppose life was always a bit difficult. And I didn't have strong role models in in my upbringing, other than my aunt who used to come and visit and tell me, obviously magnificent and wonderful and could do anything I wanted. And that, that stays with me. In fact, I went to visit hat last week, and I said, how, you know, you had no idea the impact you had on me growing up. And GFS really matters to me, because I've had to work so hard on my confidence and my resilience, to progress. And I've had to have talks with myself about when it comes to something like this, or when I give a presentation at a big fundraising event, or when I've got a difficult meeting with the leadership team, you know, I have to have really strong talks and myself, the Why are you doing this, you can do this, you know, this stuff you can and really kind of reinforced that for myself.

I see the girls of today and the challenges they face and how difficult life is for them. Because of things like social media and I, I know that my life would have been full of self-doubt, if social media had been a part of my upbringing. So seeing the impact that GFS makes in those girls lives, and thinking about how that would have had an impact for my daughter growing up, and how I would have loved to be part of a GFS group. Because things like the brownies, they weren't an option for me. So I just want to make sure that we can do all we can to reach as many girls as possible.

Carla Miller 09:48
Thank you for sharing your story. So honestly, and I'm sure lots of people do look at you and meet you and go she's so confident and she's in this Chief Exec role, but you're also still human. And so many of us still have come for dance issues, I teach this stuff and I still have to happen dance around my living room before. I'm a guest on a podcast, and I have a prep for it. So I appreciate you coming on the podcast and sharing your story. And do we all need an art like that I tried to be that art for my niece who struggles a lot with confidence, actually, but it's really hard.

As a parent, I have a very unconfident and very, very shy five year old and knowing how to build his confidence is a constant challenge for me. And let's talk about girls. And some of these issues that girls are experiencing in terms of confidence and self esteem. So you mentioned that they can't be themselves white, what do you think is driving that?

Laura Sercombe 10:46
It’s fascinating, because it's, it's not something that jumps out at you is it? We will talk about things like body attitude and lack of confidence, resilience. But this is quite a precise statement. And this is what girls have told us. So GFS is really driven by what the girls say, in terms of what we do, what the programme looks like, how we do it. And so we very much listened to them. When we built our kind of impact measurement and our values and, and our planning. And this, they said that they can't be themselves. And that has, that has implications for their confidence, their self esteem, resilience, things like making friends, because you've got to be confident to make friends. But it comes from so many places for them things like family expectations, what their family expect of them. Peer pressure fitting in. That's, that's a big one right now. And social media is feeding that dramatically, isn't it?

You know, we all know, we all know in our head that social media is not real. Well, you all know that Instagram, those pictures have been posed. None of us post pictures where we look dreadful, do we we always choose the nights one, the times that my daughter has snatched my phone from me and scroll through to see which pictures I've taken then delete all the things that she doesn't, just in case I play something for many of the girls that we work with, fitting in socially is really a challenge from them. And that comes from different things. But they are often girls that haven't been able to make friends elsewhere. And that might be because of learning difficulty. It might be because of disability. It might because they're different to the girls in their class. It might be because they're going through gender questioning, they don't really know who they are. And they're trying to work that out. And there's nobody around them that can do that. And you mentioned how you're trying to be a really good role model for your, for your knees. And I think that that's amazing, because any parent will know that their own children don't listen to them. What we say as parents, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

You can say, oh, you're incredible, you're so clever, that's just genius idea and they'll very often just give you a face and stomp off for what you're talking about. What do you know about this? Now would you say that to your niece or nephew? And the difference is, is it tangible, how they respond? Oh, really? Do you think so? And Ella's parent you can see when other people say to children just say perhaps why wasn't? Why was that she listening to me? And so I think that that's a big thing. And all this stuff that's going on around in the media or around celebrities and insurances, you know, where they are setting a bar that the girls find unobtainable and and then find it really difficult they try and then they find it really difficult to know what to do for themselves. And they very often disappear within themselves really trying to find themselves. And just recently, and with the team, the programme team have been out meeting girls and listening to what's challenging them right now. And they've said that anxiety is a big thing for them right now. And that is researchers telling us about is very much high on a priority list for us to think about because it's one of the kind of legacy pieces from COVID. that anxiety is remaining and not going away soon. They talked about attitudes of boys, and how that makes life difficult for them, but also other girls as well. That peer group Pressure is enormous. And they're also worried about personal safety as well, you know, it's been in the press so much, hasn't it. And that whole business of harassment and violence and discrimination, that's all hitting them, they know about it. And, and it's worrying. So all of these things are contributing to how they're feeling and where they're, they're fitting in or not fitting in, and that internal battles that they're fighting for themselves.

Carla Miller 15:31
That's a lot, isn't it? And yet, they're dealing with boys who are growing up listening to Andrew Tate and the like, as well, which is just horrifying. And what are the consequences of that, that lack of confidence and self-esteem? What if that carries on throughout their life, if it doesn't have an intervention to support them? How does that impact their ability to achieve their potential?

Laura Sercombe 15:56
Enormously, enormously you know, I'll go back to my aunt, she did have, she was the linchpin for me, in that I believed, if I talked to myself, I could make progress, and I could be okay. And I am okay, I was like, and, and, and if, if she hadn't been there, things would have been, would have been different for me. I think if they don't have that opportunity, then they're not able to tackle the challenges, the demons that they face, they will be isolated, they'll be severely lonely, they won't be able to make friends and build their own tribe around them. And if they can't do that, then they don't have a source of emotional nutrition for them to be able to build a strong life. And if we've got lots of girls feeling like that, and there are more girls than boys feeling right now, especially since COVID. And that means that we're going to have lots of young women feeling like that. And the corporate world is doing incredible things to open doors for women and drive kind of gender equity, as a sustainable development goal across all areas of business. But the problem is, if girls don't believe in themselves, as as girls, they're not going to believe in themselves as young woman's will be no magic, that's going to happen. And that's going to continue and get worse. And therefore they're not, they're not going to apply for those opportunities, those big open wide doors, they're not going to go through them. There was some research, I don't know if you've seen it, where they had some research that talked about, if a man sees a job description, and he recognises some of the words on those page thinks he can apply for the job, and he'll do a good job. And if a woman doesn't believe that she can do all of those things, then she can't. And so any girl and young woman going into a job opportunity or role opportunity or development opportunity that sees a description and can't do those things, then they're not going to go there. So I think if we don't have people going through the women going through those doors, grabbing those opportunities, making them work, then society is going to continue to be unbalanced. And we're going to have a really cool gender equity, which just feeds a kind of declining system and well for us really,

Carla Miller 18:47
I completely agree. And I think obviously, as you know, I work a lot with women on confidence, then I would say, I mean, obviously I will see in a slightly biased intake as people are coming to me, but when I work with organisations where people haven't had a choice, so they're put in front of me, I'd say 80 to 90% of women, particularly earlier on in their careers are having substantial confidence challenges. And these are not women that grew up with the challenges that children are facing now. So I think that problem is just going to get worse and worse and it gets exacerbated by the workplace. Because, yes, there's lots of initiatives happening but you're still going into meetings and being taken less seriously than your male colleagues. You're being interrupted. People are taking credit for your ideas. You've been promoted more slowly. And so in some ways work completed the place we get our confidence. It was for me, and I liked school. I like the rules, like Okay, so that's what's expected of me. And once I could do that, okay, this is good, because outside of school, the rules of success. Were not clear other than you were meant to be pretty and blonde, and confident and I was none of those things. But I was like, I'll just stick to school. But work is, should be easier to build your confidence because you're gaining skills all the time. But actually, it can be really challenging. I want to get back to the point you made about girls are experiencing this more than boy ease. You talked about numerous factors impacting girls confidence, which of those are the girls experiencing, but not the boys.

Laura Sercombe 20:21
I don't think I can safely say which are impacting for girls, but not for boys, I would imagine that boys are also struggling with the same, but at different levels. So if I take one example, social media, because social media is a thing that everyone goes to and fills capital, they understand it is tangible. And when we, when we asked our volunteers on induction, if you think back to 1875, and you think back to now 2023. Rice are really difficult for girls and young women in 1875, when we started this organisation were founded rather. So do you think that the world is better for girls and young men now in 2023, than eating 75? And they go away? And they have a big meaningful debate about that? And it's a really good? It's a great pub question, actually, because it brings out all sorts of No, no, no, that's not true. Because actually, you know, women have the vote now. And bizarre things like that. But without fail, and we've been doing these every month now for the last three years without fail, every single time they come back, and they say life is worse. And when we asked them, which is quite shocking, isn't it? And I think because so much has happened. And when we ask them why that is, they point to social media. So social media is the thing that has made life so difficult for girls now. And they talk about all sorts of really dramatic stories that they know from the press or media or from their own personal lives. But to answer your question, really, social media is the thing that is clearly distinct for me in the research that was done around COVID and lockdown in particular.

So during lockdown, girls, and boys went to social media to make their connection because we're all at home. You were you were imprisoned with your family, whether you like that or not. And for some children, that was incredibly difficult, and there were things going on where parents lost their, their way of making a living. Obviously, domestic violence increased and, and life has a really difficult time. And girls were that girls are social animals anyway, aren't they? And they found that even more difficult than boys and retreated into social media, in a way of making connection with people and friends and conversation, and also extracting them from the world that they were living in at the time. They did that more than boys did. And the impact for them is that their mental health declined far more rapidly than it did for boys. So they are attracted into the world of Search Social Media far more than than boys are boys obviously do it. But generally speaking, they get in there. And it's the most toxic place for for anyone to go actually, isn't it? I mean, you and me or you know if we've got any kind of insecurities we don't want to be dabbling around in, in, in social media at times or vulnerability I don't think

Carla Miller 23:50
No I took Instagram off my phone. I mean, I only follow accounts that kind of make me feel good anyway, but I took the Instagram off my phone for the Easter holidays. It's not gone back on.

Laura Sercombe
Awe, interesting. Why did you do that?

Carla Miller
LinkedIn aswell actually and I love LinkedIn. I took it off so that I wasn't mindlessly reaching for the phone and so that I was spending more of my attention on my son lost he was off school. And also because I've noticed just how addictive it is. And yeah, I've got no desire to have it back. I mean, I feel a bit bad for worth because we've not really been posting on there. But it's like show what my mental health is important and even LinkedIn I just do it on the computer now and sometimes I check it on my phone but it's so hard to do it because I haven't got the app on there that I'm not picking up and looking for that information all the time but I really what's the word and rather the words currently gone from my head? curate that's it. I really curate my feed anyway so that it's not unhelpful. But I imagine with boys a lot of the stuff that they're watching is I don't know, but or funny stuff. Whilst girl, so whatever it is about trying to improve yourself in some way, like beauty and fitness and all of that side of things, it feels like the expectations have always been much higher on girls in that way. And then that must get really, really amplified by social media and presuming quite a billion can take place via social media.

Laura Sercombe 25:23
I mean, bullying used to be visible didn't, it used to be a thing that you could see, even that sort of bullying where you weren't invited to stuff, you knew about it, and your parents knew about it. And now online bullying, cyber bullying is, is incredibly powerful. And, and, and girls are finding that because they're aimed, they're ashamed that they're not being included, they're not being invited stuff. And then that obviously gets even worse as well. And, and the increase around poor mental health anxiety, and then what that leads to in terms of self-harm, and really serious concerns, there was an incredibly powerful film all in on LinkedIn, this week, called almost 13. And it was a film about suicide, where were children, who were almost 13 took their own lives. And the parents were talking about this being the second highest killer in the States, it's an American film. And, and the lack of investment in that work compared to the corporate world, or they talked about the airline industry as an example. And you know, we're facing the same here that it's, it's an absolute killer, poor mental health if we, if we don't get that, that support in place for vulnerable children, when they really need it most.

Carla Miller 27:11
Absolutely, it is hard, right? When you spend any time on LinkedIn, there's a sad, I've got lots of people in my feed. And there's a heartbreaking story every day, because I could happily but I could spend lots of time crying on LinkedIn. I've seen that post. And I've saved it because I couldn't face watching it. At the time it came up on my feed, I was like, this is one of the things I need to watch. But no part of me wants to do it is heartbreaking. And so going back to get positive intervention, out of the GFS groups work, what do girls do in these groups that helps them build their confidence?

Laura Sercombe 27:47
Good question. And so the way we operate is we have girls attend our groups in areas where it's the worst place to live. If you're a girl. We it's a safe place for them to come. And interestingly, that's something that they saying this is a safe place for me. So culturally, whatever we're offering there, whatever goes on there is within walls that have been cushioned and made comfortable by the volunteers that that run those groups. They're places where we say girls can be themselves feel accepted, and essentially develop skills that they need to be able to grow into young, confident young women. And so it's first of all about the culture, and how that set and one of our team went to visit one of the groups in the northwest, she went to Layton, which is a really long established group run by magnificent woman called Barbara who's been volunteering for GFS for over 80 years. She's just an amazing woman, a real pillar of society, I think. And they asked what are the rules here at GFS. And, and the girls all kind of looked around and really, probably be kind, yeah, be coming and just be kind. And these are young girls that are from the ages of five, and then they go up to older group as well. So kind of late teens. And what they are focusing on is making sure that every new girl feels included and you would think that that's an easy thing to do. But we know when we started a new group, when this was not something that girls naturally understood, we had to teach them, how you can be inclusive and kind and welcome new people and mutually support each other.

You don't have to fight for your own corner here. We're all one one group. So culturally, that is the first thing that we need to get right in the group. And then we have, we have a programme. So the programme is built around key areas of development, we take one per term, and then we build sessions for the volunteers to deliver with the girls every other week. And then around things like speaking up. You know, that's something that that is really difficult if you don't believe in yourself, and you don't have confidence in your own thoughts, and your right to speak. And it is absolutely crucial. Going back to, you know, the fact that girls saying they're worried about violence in the world, and what that impacts from them harassment, how they do that, if they can't speak up around what's happening to them, then they're at risk. So that was a really important term, they're all recording. And then we we've done another one around resilience and what that means for girls and young women, and certainly kind of week by week that build into a kind of understanding for the girls. But through that, really, they also able to develop friendships. So they've got a peer group and a tribe that they belong to place they feel safe. And ostensibly building skills that will take them into young adulthood strong, independent women who, who believe in themselves.

Carla Miller 31:38
Amazing until they keep coming back to the group year after year.

Laura Sercombe 31:43
Yes, they do, and sometimes they move on. Because we've done our job, that's the dream is that sometimes we find ourselves needing to open a group for older girls. So in town Hill, in South Wales, we have we opened a group last year for younger girls, which is our sort of sweet spot, really, you know, this around prevention. Getting there before girls lose their confidence, which is so young, just five and six are starting to lose their confidence. So we opened this group. And then we found actually, that girls were bound older girls are kind of ageing out, but they weren't ready to leave. You know, they've been with us for a year. And so we opened another group for the older girls as well. So yes, they do and Layton, the group that I described earlier, up near Blackpool.

They've been coming such a long time. They've seen through generations of girls and young women. So you see the girls starting at five, going on to the older group, then becoming young volunteers and helping out and you know that responsibility and sense of ownership for their group as well. And then you see them coming back with their children and bar for a senior Oh, she's seen all of these women come back with their own children, and start all over again. When I first went to visit Layton. I said, Damn, you've got an incredible team here. She said that she pointed her to young volunteers. She said, My sorry, my young leaders, my two young leaders have been with me a long time that they're doing great, great work these young leaders and I said, how old are your young leaders, Barbara? 50 she said 50 they’re my young leaders she'd have done it for 80 years, how old is this woman? That’s impossible. She's mid 80’s she came when she was little. She's mid to late 80s.

Carla Miller 33:51
Amazing! So, it sounds like, honestly, any girl would benefit from this. And you're obviously focused on the girls that need you most in the areas that need you most. What's how many girls are you working with? And what's your, your vision for the future?

Laura Sercombe 34:09
We're working with 500 girls right now, our vision is that we grow that significantly. We, over the last year, we have revised our strategy to make sure that we're not just opening groups in a kind of chaotic way where somebody puts their hand up and said I can run a group where we're opening them in line with where research says we need it most. We're opening cluster groups like the town Hill, one where there's an evidence of need around that. We have to make sure that we invest our resources so carefully in what we do growth wise, this next year where we're about three quarters of the way through building our plan for next year, which is when we want to see an incremental increase In the girls we reach because whilst this last year, we have last two years, we have built an awful lot of thinking and planning around how we run ourselves. Well, first of all is it needed to do is what we do at GFS still needed, and how how we deliver that, and how we grow, to respond to the need and where the need is. But also, our programme, how we measure that impact, and how we report on our impact as well, is really critical, not just for those who support us, although that's important, but also back to the girls themselves as well. You know, are we listening to those girls? Are we delivering a programme that meets their needs. And, and so we're now in a place where we say, okay, we know all of that stuff, we know our DNA, we know a USP, we know, we know why we exist and what we're doing. And we validate all of that. Now it's time to press green, and let's go, let's go some, with some speed into 2324.

Carla Miller 36:07
Excellent. And if there are people listening, who want to support or getting involved in some way, what's important for them to know?

Laura Sercombe 36:16
Oh, please, please contact us. Our supporter base is not huge, we have not been doing fundraising for very long. And it's critical for the future of GFS. So I would say, call us, email us follow our social media channels, get involved in conversation that's going on there. But in terms of something you can do on Monday morning, which is always a good kind of way of measuring whether or not a podcast has given you something to do and a call to action is that we've been thinking about bank holidays, and how so many people we meet say, it's great, you're a national organisation, and you're all over England and Wales, that's fantastic. I want to volunteer. And then, you know, we've talked about how big England or Wales is, and that we are not in the town which they live, but they still want to volunteer in in in terms of supporting the organisation and the movement that we've created at GFS. So we've come up with this ingenious idea, where in the month of May, and afterwards, if they want to, they can volunteer an hour of their time. And they can volunteer an hour of their time, by donating what they would be paid for, for that hour, and help us raise money to make sure that we can deliver some really brilliant training for the volunteers who are the lifeblood of GFS and make sure that they are at the top of their game in terms of responding to what the girls are really struggling with. Brilliant. So if they want to do that, will they be able to go to your website to do that? Well, and I can send you a link that you can add to the podcast as well. Fantastic.

Carla Miller 38:03
Well, I think that one last thing I want to say I suspect there might be some people listening to this thinking when I grow up, or they might be the same as she is still thinking, I want to be Laura. I want to be a Chief Exec running an amazing, inspiring charity that makes a difference. Any advice on that on believing in yourself enough to step up to a Chief Exec role? Or to go for the job? Of Your Dreams? Do you say you talk to yourself? Or did you say to yourself when you first went into your first Chief Exec role to help you believe that you could do it?

Laura Sercombe 38:39
I was in a different place then I think the first thing to say I'll come back to your question, exact question then just the first thing to say would be do what you like and what you enjoy and respond to that. Don't worry about getting the best job having the best careers sorting out your options now. Because you think you know what you want to do when you're 21/22 and just do subjects at school in college that you really enjoy my I didn't start in this sector. I loved even though I was shy. Well maybe because I was shy. I loved acting as a child. So I worked. I operated in youth theatres and ended up going to drama school, to be in to be an actor. And I spent my first year working life as an actor, which I grew to hate because too many people said no. I had a great line in baby bear and pantomime. And also Aladdin and and then some kind of travelling rep theatres, but actually, I worked out that that's not something I wanted to do. professionally. What I really wanted to do was something that somebody told me I couldn't do. I loved flying travelling, and I wanted to be a stewardess cat inquiry. So when I worked out, I couldn't be an actor because of the life challenges it threw around you and the lack of the constant reject rejection and lack of an inclusion and acceptance. I thought to what that person so I couldn't do, I'm gonna apply, and I got the job. And I got the job. And I had five years where actually I started to really feel comfortable in my own skin, doing what I love doing, which was flying, travelling, meeting people, making people feel comfortable when they were really worried because travelling on an aircraft is a big scary thing to do for lots of people.

And then I came out of that, and I just happened to had a child and I happened to start teaching children who were struggling at school, and just then took up some training, ended up working for a charity that supports dyslexic children and adults. And then I got promoted, and for a long time, and this is where the imposter syndrome comes up for a long time, I thought I was promoted, because I was the only person that had a jacket, and that everybody else didn't look professional, but I could look professional, and therefore I was promoted, it was nonsense.

You know, somebody saw in me something that they thought I could do, and I did it. And then every opportunity that has come up since then, has been something that I have seen, but generally has come to me, because I've been in a place where I've been happy. And I've been enjoying the work I've been doing even when it's been difficult. When I started my first CEU zero was put to us at the end, I had left a charity where it was male dominated. And it was headed up by somebody that led by intimidation. And I always felt I had to fit in and be one of the boys. I took up smoking because they all smoked outside. And I felt I had to start smoking just to fit in with them. How ridiculous is that, you know, a grown woman doing that. Anyway, I left that role and I took up this first CEO role, which I saw because somebody emailed me about it. And I went in touch and I said I am never ever going to pretend to be somebody else, I'm going to be myself. And you know, the whole of Laura is not ideal at all. Many people will tell you, my husband, my children, my colleagues, by being yourself, and making a decision to be your true, very trendy word authentic self is so liberating. And that made me relax and just focus on what was needed and the work that we needed to do instead of what did I look like? What did I sound like, you know, and trying to fit in?

Carla Miller 43:15
Yeah, I love that. And that totally resonates with me as well, in terms of just the whole of Carla is quite messy sometimes. But it does take away some of the impostor feelings because I'm not trying to be someone else or comparing myself to someone else if I stay off social media, we’ll see how long I say off.

Carla Miller 43:38
Well, thank you so much. It's been brilliant to hear more about the work of the charity to hear about the data that you want to support. I really hope it will encourage some more people to get involved to get involved in your scheme to volunteer donate an hour of their time. And I look forward to continuing to support your work as well. So thanks very much. I really appreciate you coming on.

Laura Sercombe 43:58
Thank you for your support for GFS too means great deal.

Carla Miller 44:10
Thanks for listening to today's episode.

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