Carla Miller 00:00
Welcome to the influence and impact podcast for female leaders.

My name is Carla Miller. And I'm a leadership coach who helps female leaders to tackle self doubt, become brilliant influencing and make more impact at work. I've created this podcast to help you to become a more inspiring and impactful leader. And I want to become the leadership BFF that you didn't know you were missing until now. how resilient Are you feeling at the moment? When people come along to the workshops that I run and the courses one of the things I do at the beginning of the session, is just have a little check in to see how people are doing and I'll say, share one word, or phrase that sums up how you're doing in this moment. And a lot of the same words come up again, and again, words like busy, overwhelm, lots to do, stressed, worried, there are some positive words in there as well, you'll be pleased to hear that not everyone is on the verge of a breakdown when they come to my courses. However, this has been happening for a really, really long time, it feels like things ramped up a few years ago, and they've never actually ramped down again. And so it's really important to be able to balance the needs of our jobs. For many of us the needs of carrying responsibilities outside of work as well, or our own health issues. With looking after ourselves, looking after our own well being laying the foundations so that we can be resilient. And that's what today's podcast episode is about.

Delighted to have Laura Cullen on the podcast, Lara is the author of How to Be a People Person. And we talk about what even is resilience? We talked about how much we hate the phrase mental toughness, and why we also explore what are the qualities of resilient people. So how by working on those qualities, can you become more resilient. And Laura has a model which looks at the three elements of resilience. So it looks at energy, it looks at mindset, and it looks at strategies to enable you to become more resilient. So we dive into that, as well. We also talk about what it means to be resilient as a leader. And then we explore the idea that when you're under a lot of pressure, many of us go into either under functioning or over functioning, I really enjoyed that part of the conversation.

In particular, it was really interesting for me to recognise that over functioning in myself, and also recognise the judgement that comes with it. And it was great because Laura tends to towards under functioning at the moment so she could put that perspective forward. And we will dive into that in the conversation. But I think whichever one you are, you're going to recognise yourself and also understand why other people operate differently and respond and react differently to stress than you do. And when you're a leader, I think that's so important to understand. Because if you are sitting there thinking, Why is this person acting that way that makes no sense. It's really, really hard to be able to effectively support them.

So let me tell you a little bit more about Lara. Lara is a sought after executive coach, trainer, author and founder. After a successful 15 year career in HR and leadership working with global brands across a number of industries. She decided to spread her wings and do things her own way. And she founded the people person limited which is a boutique personal development and coaching consultancy, based in London, with the sole aim of helping more people be happier, healthier, and more successful doing what they love, and enabling businesses to get the best out of their people. And Lara and I met we were both working with the same client and got on like a house on fire. It's been great to keep in touch with her. And it's been really fantastic to bring her on to the podcast to talk about her own experiences and how she and her book can help you to be a people person. And for her that's about being kind being brave and being brilliant and who does not want to be all of those three things. Now, before we dive into the episode a bit about what's been going on around here. Firstly, I have been working on my own wellbeing to become more resilient, so I'm doing quite well at cutting out sugar and ultra-processed foods become a bit addicted to the Feel better Live more podcast and all the information I'm gaining from that. So if you're interested in health and wellbeing, I would definitely go and check out that podcast, they're quite long form episode, some of them are like two and a half hours long. So some of them it takes me a whole week to listen to on my walks, or my runs or doing my boring house stuff. But it is really helping me to get into the mindset of genuinely wanting to make better choices about my health and to make choices to prevent future disease rather than seeing it as inevitable.

Now, if you've been listening for a while, you'll know that I talk a lot about eating Colin the Caterpillars for Marks and Spencers, the mini ones, not the huge ones. So it's a big mindset shift for me. Now, the other thing that has been going on is that we've been running these one off workshops within organisations on topics like feedback and managing upwards and sideways. Sometimes I talked about that on LinkedIn, and quite a few people were saying, Do you offer those as a standalone open workshop. So we are going to try all that the first one is going to be in July. And it is about influencing upwards and sideways. Now, we are not going to call it influencing upwards and sideways because we know you're going to have to go and ask your line manager to pay for it. And they might not like the idea of paying for you to be able to influence them. So we're going to call it Influencing for Success. But basically, it's about being able to navigate successfully, internally and speak the language of senior stakeholders.

Now previously, I only shared this content within my Influence and Impact programme. But I know that there are some people for whom they don't want to do the whole programme or it's a big investment. And so we're running this as a two and a half hour workshop. And we're offering a charity discount as well. And if this goes well, then we will look at doing some other ones, including on topics like feedback. Now, if you'd like to know more about that you can go to carlamillertraining.com/influenceforsuccess. And you'll be able to find all the details there.

What else is happening? The other thing that's happening is that if you get my newsletter, we are moving from fortnightly to no we're not we're doing it the other way around. We are moving from a weekly newsletter to fortnightly newsletter just allows me a bit more time to get the newsletter done. And to make sure that it's adding lots of value.

If you're on LinkedIn, we also have a LinkedIn newsletter. Now I think we've got about 1600 and something subscribers, which is fantastic. So we'll be sharing on there as well. So if you're not already following me or connected to me on LinkedIn, please do come and find me there and sign up for the newsletter as well. Okay, I think that's all the exciting news that's going on here. So let's move on to the episode.

So, Lara, we get to have a chat on the podcast now instead of in person, and it's fantastic to have you on the show. Welcome.

Lara Cullen 08:35
Oh, thank you so much. Thanks. It's really, really good to be here.

Carla Miller 08:38
So, I think our listeners would love to hear a little bit about your background, and how you came to be coaching and training and focusing on this area.

Lara Cullen 08:49
Sure. So my professional background started in HR. I joined HR as a graduate back in early 2000. And something and at that point was super ambitious, kind of really wanted to get top of the organisation as quickly as possible, did pretty well at that, and stayed in the HR world for about 15 years kind of moving around different businesses. Over that time, towards the end of my HR career, I started to really think about my own personal development, I was experiencing a lot of changes myself and my 30s and training in the background in coaching and LP and developing more of an interest in in wellbeing and I guess seeing that there was more to life and all of those things that I had really aspired for in my 20s. So I had the car I had the nice house. I had the lovely husband, I had a really great salary, lovely holidays, but I wasn't well, I wasn't happy and so I sort of moved into understanding exploring the things that worked for me and from that decided to move into making a career of that to help other people with it.

Carla Miller 10:04
Fantastic and I can really see the alignment between that and the work that you're doing on resilience. And that side of things there. Tell us a bit about your book. It's called How to be a People Person, how did you land on that name? And what are you trying to achieve in the book?

Lara Cullen 10:18
So well, my business is called The Pupil Personnel and I guess that came first. You know, and again, it was about thinking about all of the things that I do. And it's like, well, I'm, I'm a people person, I can help people with stuff that is human humanity related. And then, again, through the work that I was doing, I realised that there was sort of three key principles that kept coming back to in the work that I do. And this was around kindness, and compassion.

The other was around courage and bravery. And the third one really was about kind of execution and be brilliant, and so on. And so I developed this little mantra, and I don't really know where it came from, which was be kind be brave, and be brilliant. And realise that the more that we can focus on those things, both towards ourselves and towards other people, and also towards the kind of world as a whole, the more that we're able to, I guess, kind of ACE being a human in the world. So I thought, actually, you know, wouldn't it be great if instead of thinking of a people person, as somebody who is outgoing, and sociable and charismatic, and all of those things, it was actually somebody who was able to get the best out of themselves, as well as other people. So the relationship with yourself being super important to so the book is called How to be a People Person, be kind, be brave, be brilliant. And that's really the three step formula for doing that.

Carla Miller 11:42
I love it and there's so much in the book, I mean, there's your source, but anyone who wants to be more of a people person, and the bit that we're gonna dive into today is around resilience. Because I think that that's something that a lot of people struggle with, or feel they should be more resilient, or no burn up, burnout comes out a lot in terms of the clients that I've talked to. So what does resilience mean to you?

Lara Cullen 12:12
Yeah, so first of all, echo and agree with all of that. resilience to me is, it's quite personal. And I guess maybe if I, if I can start by talking about what resilience isn't. So when I first came across the concept of resilience, especially in the workplace, back in those early 2000s, when I wanted to take over the world, it was very active, it was very kind of alpha. And it was all around, being able to put up with anything, being able to keep ongoing, regardless of what obstacles you faced, and never taking no for an answer. So that was how, I guess, you know, resilience, looked and felt to me back then, what I've learned the hard way and through the work that I do with my clients as well, is that that definition, that understanding has shifted. So it's not just about staying power anymore, it's much more about well being. So really, it's about having the energy, having the mindset and having the strategies to be able to deal with adversity and to grow from it, as well. And I think that's maybe one of the other ways that the understanding of resilience has changed back in the day, it was very much about bouncing back. Whereas now, it's not just about bouncing back. Because, you know, if you go through a hard time who wants to just bounce back? It's actually about how do you use it to move you forward and to grow from it.

Carla Miller 13:44
I love that. And you're that that 2000s definition of resilience reminds me of the phrase I started seeing a couple of years ago mental toughness, I hate those.

Lara Cullen 13:54
Don't even get me started on mental toughness, I have a real problem with it. And, and with mental fitness as well in as it precludes me less, but I find them so aggressive. And I think what I also really struggle with around the concepts of mental fitness and mental toughness is, you know, I know so many people who do a lot of the things that you know, hopefully I'm sure we're going to talk about today that will help you build resilience, but can still sometimes really, really struggle. And the implication that they're not enough where they're not tough enough. It just feels really insulting. And uncompassionate to me, so yeah, yeah. Thank God we've moved on from that. Well, we haven't entirely moved on from that. But some of us have.

Carla Miller 14:45
This week on LinkedIn, it's mental health. Well not on LinkedIn, but it's Mental Health Awareness Week. And on LinkedIn, which is where I spent far too much of my time. There's loads of posts, and it's really interesting seeing so many people openly share their struggles with mental health. And I think that's really helping to shift people's understanding and expectation around resilience and anxiety is coming up in particular I think. So I'm finding that really insightful, but hopefully it just keeps opening up the conversation and raising awareness. So when we talk about resilience, you mentioned these three elements, the energy, the mindset, and the strategies tell us more about those.

Lara Cullen 15:32
Sure. So I guess, if we, if we start with energy, so this is really about having, having enough fuel in the tank and having the right kind of the fuel in the tank to be able to deal with things. And so you know, and there are four different types of energy. So there's your physical energy, which is exactly that, do you have enough fuel in the tank, if you don't, you're not going to, you're not going to get very far, you get your physical energy. This is the real basic stuff, you get your physical energy from what you eat, from, what you're drinking, and how much you're sleeping, and then also how much you're moving. So really kind of looking after the basics. The next element of energy is emotional energy.

So this relates to the quality of the energy we've got and how we're feeling our emotional well being. And then this is really, you know, are we doing those things? Are we giving enough space in our life for those things that energise us that nourish us emotionally? The third element of our energy is our mental energy. So this is a little bit different to mental health, but more about our ability to focus to think straight, it's really difficult to be resilient and find solutions to problems if we can't, if we can think straight. And the fourth element of our and our energy is meaningful energy. So this is about, you know, what's it all for. And this is really, really critical when it comes to resilience. Because you know, if there's a strong enough practice, if there's a strong enough light at the end of the tunnel, or a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, then you'll push yourself further, you'll you'll find a way to get there, where people really can lose their resilience as if there's, there's no reason there's no, there's no compelling outcome at the end of it. So, So energy is really important. And it's the first I guess, foundational block.

The second part of resilience is our mindset. And this is about really how we think about pressure, how we think about stress. So we need some pressure in order to live in order to function. You know, if you just think about doing an exam at school, you know, you do well, when you're under some pressure or performance anxiety. So a lot of people find that actually, they do their best work under a little bit of pressure. So we need some pressure, but not too much. But how we think about pressure really affects how it affects us. And there's research that's shown that even just viewing pressure as not a bad thing in its own right, helps make us more resilient. So having a resilient mindset is around how we how we view adversity? Do we view it as something that's always negative? Do we view it as an opportunity to learn and to grow? And then the third element of it is our coping strategies. So we have enough energy, enough energy in the tank, we know that, you know, not all pressure is a bad thing. But do we actually know what to do when we're up against it?

So in my book, and in the work that I do, I often talk to people about the importance of things like self compassion, and having appropriate boundaries in place so that those boundaries, you know, that we protect the energy that we have, also controlling the controllables. There's another kind of really big one when it comes to coping strategies, and various bits and pieces such as that. So do we have fuel in the tank? Do we have the right outlet? And do we know what to do with it, and we need all of those three things in order to be at our most resilient.

Carla Miller 19:11
I'm not the only woman listening to this going I do not think I've got enough fuel in my world.

Lara Cullen 19:18
I know. And I think, you know, it's really, and this is where self compassion is so important, and resilience, because, yeah, it's so easy to beat ourselves up for the fact that we're not, you know, kind of making these amazing meals every night. We're not going to the gym every day, and we're not getting our eight and a half hour asleep. And all of this kind of stuff. Like there is a thing called real life that sometimes gets in the way. But what I think it can be really helpful to remember is how much of it is in our control. And even if we can't do everything, which most of us can't do that what small changes could we make in each of those dimensions that might allow Unless just to weather the blows that bit more easily. And knowing that even if we do have those days when or those weeks or those months, when things are really, really hard, and we don't feel like we can cope, that's okay, too. That's part of the human journey. And one of the other really helpful coping strategies is, okay, well, how do I get some help, which I know also doesn't become that naturally to a lot of people.

Carla Miller 20:27
You and I met when we were running a workshop for the same client together, then have lunch and dinner. And one of the things I was talking about the times by sugar addiction, yeah. And how I was totally fueling myself, it's sugar, and I didn't know what to do about it. And you'd made some progress on that. And then I think I was probably talking about brain fog, as well, as you'd be pleased to hear the last month I've massively cut down on sugar and ultra processed foods, I do still bake things, and I will eat those but don't really anything else. And then testosterone has sorted out my mental energy, brain fog, as well, more or less.

Lara Cullen 21:05
And have you noticed since cutting down on sugar.

Carla Miller 21:09
I've noticed my energy levels are more stable, and I've not had the cravings. Most of the time I do notice if I haven't had protein, enough protein that then I'm like, Oh, I could really do with something. But I haven't experienced those same cravings. And also, I haven't felt guilty, because I think I've now I've educated myself so much on healthy eating and listened to so many podcasts on it. But now like, I'm totally aware of what I'm doing to my body when I put in it, and the app still been doing it anyway. And it's been really nice to not feel guilty to kind of feel proud at the end of each day that I have done a reasonably good job of fueling myself. So thanks for the inspiration.

Lara Cullen 21:53
No, ohmy gosh, now, thanks for sharing that.

Carla Miller 21:57
So that's brilliant, that that we've got those three elements, one of the things you touched on your book is that there are various qualities of resilient people, what are some of those qualities?

Lara Cullen 22:12
So, I think one of the one of the ones that I usually start with is optimism and hopefulness. So resilient people generally operate on a belief that things are going to work out, okay. And that kind of links to meaningful energy as well as I can, there's a bigger greater purpose at the end of this and things will work out, okay. Having great boundaries, as well, is something that I see a lot in people who are who are resilient, you know, they know how to protect their energy, they know what they need to do to do that. People often talk about not having enough time, but you know, we've, without being All right, we've got the same 24 hours in a day as Beyonce about it, you know, we all generally do have more or less the same amount of time to play with, but our energy is it tends to be more personal. So people who are very boundary tend to really understand what they need to do to monitor their energy so that they can make the most of the time that they have.

People who are resilient tend to look after themselves as best as they can as well, you know, they have perspective. So they tend not to take things personally and tend not to catastrophize or minimise as well. So I think that's one of the other kind of really important things. Curiosity is something I talk about a lot in, in my book and in my work. So again, you know, looking for what's the lesson in these situations, rather than seeing everything as a fait accompli? And I guess maybe just to finish with the notion of how they experience setbacks or failure. So you know, failure isn't isn't the end point. failure isn't a failure. Failure is just a way of showing what hasn't worked, or it's a step on the journey. So they tend not to get too deflated by failure. I need to kind of caveat this with I don't know anybody that does all of this all the time. But as people who do most of this most of the time.

Carla Miller 24:28
I love it. How much of it do you do most of the time?

Lara Cullen 24:31
Oh,my gosh, it. It varies, I guess all I will say is you write the or you write the book that you need to read. It's something that I've heard a lot and I think it's true. You know, all of the things that I that I talk about are lessons I've had to learn or I'm still learning I think, you know, I talk a lot about compassion and kindness. And I think I'm pretty kind to myself, but the number of friends are my therapist. She will say to me, you know, you're very hard on yourself, you're very hard on yourself. So realise there's still some work to do there, I've got so much better at my boundaries than I used to, I think that's an area that I think I've got a lot better I look after myself physically much better than I did before. You know, when I was in my 20s, and in my 30s, or in my 20s, I'd never seen the inside of a gym. And, you know, spirit was takeaways, and I drank, you know, now I don't drink I exercise already kind of pay attention to what I eat. So I knew, you know, but like, everybody, I have my moments for sure.

Carla Miller 25:40
It's good to know that we don't have to be perfect to be able to put some of these principles in place. Definitely. And in your book, you talked about this concept of full circle. Resilience. What does that mean?

Lara Cullen 25:53
Yeah so again, and it was really when I started to question and explore and get curious about what resilience was. And I felt that so much of the thinking and, and writing around the subject was very reactive. So it's all about, you know, how do you deal with it when I don't know if I'd swear on this podcast, but when the bleep hits the fan, you know, like, how do you deal with it? And are you best set up to be able to deal with the twists and turns of life and, and that's great. And that's really important. But then there's also something you know, a lot of the people that I admire, and the people who I think, do life really well who aren't just thinking about how do I deal with what life's thrown at me, but also setting themselves up so that they are strong, and they have strong foundations for the future. So that's proactive, proactively thinking about the life or the business that they want to have, that's not going to cause them to burn out or be working 70 hours a week, every week, it's thinking about the, you know, even little things like sustainable shopping, and the imprint that they want to leave on the world so that there's a better world for the kids that grow up behind us. So it's very much thinking about how do we almost prevent catastrophes or prevent adversity, and we can't prevent it all? You know, I'm not saying that we can control it, but definitely, really thinking about thinking proactively rather than reactively. When it comes to resilience tubes. That's what I mean about full circle resilience.

Carla Miller 27:32
It really resonated with me when I read that, and I think without knowing the phrase at the time, my whole move up north and kind of focusing on my priorities and tempering some of that ambition, because I want to enjoy life. Yeah. Oh, and not be on a train to London. Yeah. Because I spent the OT and completely on a train to London, I was like, this is not why I moved to configure, so I could visit London all the time. So that really resonated with me. And I think a lot of people that I know that around my age, have it in their 40s. You have that moment, don't you think? Is this what I want to make however many years of my working life? And what's my legacy? Like? What's my legacy? As an individual? What difference do I want to make? And how do I shape my career or my business? To do that? So I really loved that piece.

Lara Cullen 28:26
Yeah. And I think, you know, from what I know, of your business as well, I think you do that really well. Because you are thinking about how do you help beyond you know, it's not just about kind of getting lots of bums and seats and lots of dollar in the bank, you know, for you, you've got a purpose, which is so much bigger than that. And it's really about how do you make a positive difference to society, and especially to women. And that's a brilliant example of full circle resilience, you know.

Carla Miller 28:53
Thank you. That's lovely to hear. Now, there was another word that really leapt out at me when I was reading this chapter, which was about over functioning. Tell us a little bit about over functioning and how that fits into this puzzle piece of resilience.

Lara Cullen 29:10
Yeah, for sure. So this is really about how we respond in times of stress. And typically, when people are under extreme stress, we go to one of two places, we either go into over functioning, and we go into under functioning, I think over functioning a lot of people and I imagine a lot of people that listen to your podcasts will probably connect with more. But it's also important to understand the other side because when you recognise what's going on for people, then maybe you can be a little bit more tolerant of them. But over functioning is basically what happens when you're under. You're feeling under stress under pressure more that you can deal with. And your response is to try and take control and to go into action mode and try and fix so it's almost like my world feels completely out of control.

How do I find some symbol So control and all of that. And it can be taking more than your fair share of space as well. So especially if you're a team leader or manager of people, you know, going into trying to fix control do take squeezing other people out. And there's a, there's a couple of kinds of psychological reasons why this happens. So one of them is about needing to, to be active and to be busy. So when we are under stress, the stress response, the biological stress response results in lots of adrenaline and cortisol being released, and it makes us want to do stuff. So part of it is that, and another part of it, which is, I guess, maybe slightly deeper is around this need to show value. So one of our needs as human beings is to belong, to be valued to not kind of get kicked out of a tribe. So the more valuable that you can show you are in times of crisis, the less likely that is to happen.

So kind of people who over function in generally, anybody who describes themselves or sees themselves, as you know, I do really well under pressure, that's my sweet spot, I'm getting at prices, people who, as I say, you know, take on responsibility and fix things that they haven't been asked to fix. Micromanaging, you know, not being able to sleep because your mind is so busy, all of these are kind of classic signs of over functionaries.

The watch out is, and I'm sure you can probably imagine, it doesn't take a genius to work it out is that this kind of personality type is very prone to burnout, for sure, because you can only do that for for so long. But also in terms of relationships with other people, they can really alienate other people and other people can start to feel resentful towards them equally, they can start to feel or functionalist can start to feel resentful of other people thinking they're not doing anything that are pulling their weight, when the reality is you haven't given them space to. So that's kind of typical over functioning under functioning is the opposite. So this is when people may be experiencing the exact same pressure and stress, go into a place of paralysis, and they just can't do anything, they can't make decisions. They're completely, you know, feel completely overwhelmed, can't take any action, and wait for somebody else to come along and save them. But I see often happening here is that people, especially the over function, or think, oh my god, this person doesn't care, they're not interested, they're not taking it seriously. And actually, the complete opposite is true, the press is taking it so seriously, they just can't do anything about it. And the watch out here is again, you know, these people can can burn out but in a different way. Because they don't get themselves out of the situation that they're in, so they're not taking action. And also here, what happens a lot with people who are under function is the self doubt self criticism, gremlins stepping in, because these people know that they should be doing something they should be taking action they find themselves unable to and then they give themselves a really hard time. Why am I not doing it?

So for example, it might be, you know, I've got a number of deadlines to do. I'm not addressing them, I'm so lazy, I'm so rubbish and so on. And that keeps us stuck, too. So that's your over functioning under functioning. And generally, people will veer towards one more than the other. But you can absolutely, absolutely flip and flop. And people sometimes who over function too extreme will burn themselves out so much that all they can do is nothing and under function. So knowing knowing that, that's a tendency that people have is really helpful. Knowing when you're in it is even more helpful. And being able to spot on support other people when they're in it is just the icing on the cake. Do you know speaks to you.

Carla Miller 33:56
I am totally an over functioner? Totally, although I have moments where I've had over functioning morning. Yeah, I find that the afternoon I'm like, I've got so much to do. I haven't got it in me. And now I've learned to just go and shut the laptop, go for a walk. You want to try again afterwards, try again afterwards, or just like let it go because you know what you achieved five days worth in the morning. And it's fine. So I have I've learned that I remember someone saying to me, some of us can't pace ourselves. So design your life to work with that. And so I used to do interim roles where I'd like go hard for six months and then take time off and also I found within three roles I didn't overcommit emotionally in a way so I was able to find that balance. It's I have not been in very many permanent senior level roles because my instinct is to go into overdrive to try and over deliver man to over invest and to get burnt out. And then what are the solutions? One of the two feels like not everyone else is in that in that with me, and I'm like, what? I'm the only one doing this. So yeah, how about you.

Lara Cullen 35:11
Um, so I, I think that I under function especially more lately, I can find myself getting really overwhelmed. When I worked in businesses. And I had a team of people around me, I found that that really helped. Because when I was in that moment of overwhelm, and being able unable to see the wood for the trees, there was usually a boss or somebody who could share the load or helped me find perspective. And now that I work with my, for myself by myself, I find that I can get really overwhelmed really easily. So I have to spot that I'm doing it being a bit more self compassionate, like, you know, taking a walk if I need to, but actually, for me, sometimes it's about saying, you can take your walk in two hours, you need to just do 20 minutes, even if it's just 20 minutes, do something. And that sense of action usually gives me more motivation and more confidence to be able to take more action. But that's changed as I've got older, when I was younger, I was like, Oh, my God, like, I'm just gonna do everything and everybody else's rubbish. But I've slimmed down, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

Carla Miller 36:22
I've been coaching a few people recently, who I think would put themselves in the category of overachiever, and not overachiever over phungster. And they are struggling with how to deal with and motivate people who are going through a tough time and a revert under functioning. So if you're in that situation where you're lying, managing someone who is telling you that they're struggling, and you can see that they're unable to deliver any sort of skills thing, it seems to be a sort of almost an energy or overwhelm thing. What can you do to support them effectively?

Lara Cullen 36:59
Yeah, well, I think, you know, this is a real coaching question. I think the first thing I would always do in any situation is ask that person what they need to handle what they need. But generally, it's about breaking it down. So usually, when people under function, it's because everything feels so big, it's scary that you want to retreat back into your cave. So it goes back to those cave man fighter flight syndromes. So how can you help that person to break things down, because they're probably unable to do that for themselves. So it might be about, you know, deciding together, what the priorities are, finding out what's achievable. And just doing that we're seeing where you might be able to take some of the stresses and the pressure, and the stresses and pressures off. And then the other bits of, you know, I mentioned before, are they doing the basics? Like, are they eating nutritious food? Or are they eating junk, you know, very often, and this is, I say this, hopefully, without any judgement, but very often I see people who come to a resilience workshop now, oh, my God, and absurdly exhausted, and then they bash three cans of Red Bull in a workshop, I think swap that for water and just see if that makes a difference. Cut down your screen time as well, you know, the real kind of basic things that we all kind of know are really important to us.

But I don't think I realised until I started doing this work, I Oh, much of a difference they make to your ability to deal with stress, because that's what we're talking about, we're talking about over and under functioning, it's your ability to, to deal with stress. And I think maybe the other thing for that some of those over functioning Cochise is, it's very easy to get a little bit judgmental, and to get on our high horse and to think, Oh, well over functioning is so much better than under functioning. And actually, neither of them are they both come with their pitfalls. So you know, to recognise that you are over functioning may also be causing this person a lot of stress and to take a little look in the mirror to.

Carla Miller 39:00
Absolutely,I think like you say when you worked for someone who's over functioning, who's got to micromanaging points, or just trying to control everything, or is just got into that default of thinking I know best because I fix everything that can be really, really difficult as well.

Lara Cullen 39:19
And it also disempowers that person, you know, because if I think when my boss is going to step in and sort it out, because that's what they do, then why am I going to bust my backside trying to find a solution that's probably not going to be right in the first place. So, you know, a lot of it is what are what are we giving out as well. And when I wrote the book and the model that I've developed, it's this three rings, I call it the brain model, because there's different ways to be but it's around three rings. And we start with self always so you know, it's not to say that every time you've got somebody in your team who's not pulling their weight, but it's an issue with you, but it's always really important to just check in and ask what am I doing to help or hinder this person in their environment?

Carla Miller 40:06
Definitely, I was running a workshop the other day. And we were talking about giving and receiving feedback. And I was putting it in the context of psychological safety. And saying, yeah, it's all very well learning how to give feedback. But actually you need to be modelling asking for and receiving feedback, without being defensive and asking questions like, how am I making your job harder? What about you and I overlooking?

Yeah, and I love those questions. And it takes courage. Yeah. If you didn't ask them, you have to be able to do the answers, and not go into that like defensive, aggressive, passive aggressive, whatever your normal response is. But I would really love to see more and more managers and leaders, increasingly self-awareness, because I think that is why a lot of people are leaving organisations, a, just the expectations and overload and the workload of everybody because everybody thinks you have to say yes to everything. And leaders think they have to lead by going big all the time. But also people with real blind spots about the negative impact they're having on others. And I think this over functioning under functioning is a really nice paradigm to view that. It's really definitely, you said three things. So oneself, what are the other two?

Lara Cullen 41:25
Oh, sorry. So there's yourself, others and environment. And you know, going back to what it means to be a people person, and somebody who's able to get the best out of themselves and others, you really got to be able to have awareness of so the thread of awareness runs through that on my model as well. have awareness of yourself have awareness of other people have awareness of the environment. And again, those concepts that I touched on the very beginning, be kind, be brave, be brilliant, be kind to yourself, be kind to other people be kind to the environment and feeds through. So they're the three rings of the of the model.

Carla Miller 42:03
Brilliant. Well, I could chat to you all day. What’s one thing that you would like people to leave this this podcast with? So you've given us lots of different insights, what do you think is the key thing that if they just changed that or understood or or got curious about it, it would make the biggest difference to them?

Lara Cullen 42:26
I guess maybe a sort of a parting message would be that every single one of us no matter how resilient or mentally tougher mentally fit we are, we'll have days when it all feels like too much. And think that they can continue. And that is not a sign of failure, or that everybody else is doing it right. And you're doing it wrong, that is just part of being human. So give yourself a bit of a break and know that that that comes with the turf. And there are some things that you can do some of them really quite small. That can really support you some looking after yourself physically, making sure you're doing the right things that will give you joy in life, and connecting to a bigger purpose. And being a little bit kinder to yourself as well.

Carla Miller 43:21
Wonderful. Now, we've talked about your book, and people can get that from any bookstore. And how else can people find out about you and work with you?

Lara Cullen 43:30
Sure, so my website is thepeopleperson.org I'm on the usual socials. Well, not on tick tock yet, that would test my resilience, but I'm on Instagram and LinkedIn. So you can find me there. And yeah, and just reach out and connect. You know, I'm a real people person human being too and I genuinely love getting messages after being on podcasts or whatever, from people where it's, it's touched. So, yeah, that's how to find me.

Carla Miller 43:59
Brilliant, so if this has made a difference to you, if you're going to take something from this, then do let us know, connect with us on LinkedIn or put something on the post that we post about it. And let us know. It's always really nice when you've been a guest on the podcast to know that people are actually listened.

Lara Cullen 44:18
It really does. Where it's simple creatures just knowing that, you know, it's just it's made an impact somewhere - it fills my tank up.

Carla Miller 44:27
Definitely. And I think when you work for your own soul, you don't have any more saying, Oh, well done. You did a great job. So you kind of have to do it to yourself some of the time, but it's really nice and sometimes. Yeah, that made a difference. I really enjoyed that. Thank you so much. Lara.

Lara Cullen 44:41
Thank you and well done. You've done a great job, Carla.

Carla Miller 44:45
Thanks very much and go find Laara on LinkedIn and follow her.

Lara Cullen
Thank you

Carla Miller
Thanks for listening to today's episode.

If you're not already subscribing, please do so that you don't miss any future episodes. And if you want to go deeper on the topics that we talk about here on the podcast on confidence, self doubt, impostor feelings, increasing your influence being better at leading, then there are a few avenues that you can take. The simplest is to get yourself a copy of my book, Closing the Influence Gap. If you love this podcast, it is crazy if you don't already own that book, because it's got so much of the content from the podcast in a really accessible way. And so many practical tools and strategies. It's basically a practical guide for women leaders who want to be heard in the workplace, you can grab a copy in any bookstore.

Now, we also run a couple of open programmes. We run them once or twice a year each, there is Be Bolder, our four week confidence and assertiveness course, which is suitable for women at any level. And then there's also Influence and Impact, which is our Women's Leadership Development Programme. That's a three month small group cohort working closely with me.

And then my team and I also work in house in organisations, sometimes that's working with women leaders, whether that's running a whole Women's Leadership Programme, or running one of our really popular master classes for women leaders. Sometimes it's working with early to mid-career women, where we're often sharing our Be Bolder confidence and assertiveness programme. We also offer gender neutral versions of that which are becoming increasingly popular because women aren't the only people experiencing confidence challenges.

And then finally, we do work with Ally ship and supporting men to help bring about gender equity in the workplace as well.

So if you are heading up a team, or a department or within your organisation, you're responsible for the people function or l&d. And we'd like to have a chat about how we can work together. I would absolutely love that. And you can go to my website and book a cold or if it's simpler, head on over to LinkedIn.

Let's connect and let's chat there. I would love to take working with you to the next level and help you to become an organisation that retains and develops and supports the talented women that work for you.